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Messages - AmPm

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Dungeon World / Re: Running Chases
« on: January 06, 2013, 09:01:16 PM »
I'm curious when we all started to think Dex = speed...kinda like Strength =/= Bulk

Completely off topic but interesting to note.

Anyway, so basically you suggest using Defy Danger with custom consequences based on the scenario....so the exact same thing as a custom move based on a stat of choice with an outcome that fits the fiction...

AKA: The exact same thing as just making up a move for it.

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Dungeon World / Re: Running Chases
« on: January 05, 2013, 04:40:23 PM »
I never said you need to make a customer move, you could, it doesn't change the mechanics of the game at all.

What I am saying is that you need to force rolls if you want an intensive chase. You can't just say, well, you are faster than this guy, you catch him. There should be some roll+dex/str/con/int rolls in there, no matter if you call it a Defy Danger if the move results in something outside the norm it's pretty much a custom move.

No high intensity player/npc scene should be played out in only 1 roll. Zooming out is for things like how well do you traverse a section of field. Like a perilous journey, if the players decide to route things over a gorge or river or up a cliff there should be a scene for that. A travel montage if you will. Same goes for a chase scene, you should go clip to clip to clip at a high pace focusing on the actions of each character in pursuit of the target. This means multiple rolls over the course of the chase.

I'm also curious how you can say a man in chain with an incredible strength who is very used to wearing it will be slower than someone else, perhaps wearing leather which weighs the same who might naturally be a slower runner. Those are all up to player description of their characters and are arbitrary.

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Dungeon World / Re: Running Chases
« on: January 05, 2013, 12:20:49 PM »
"The orcs take off in different directions, some head straight for the kitchen doors, the others run off towards a guard tower. What do you do."

Players, "We split up and chase them" Insert descriptive narrative about their attempts. "Ok, roll *insert skill*. Well, looks like you catch up to the orcs running toward the guard tower, however only one of you chasing the orcs toward the kitchen manages to catch up to them, what do you do?"

Why not just have the GM use their moves according to the GM principles? "Okay, you go tearing off after the two orcs that bolted for the kitchens. Florian, you can definitely catch them if you sprint but Baldor's heavy chain is going to slow him down some. Do you go after them full bore, or keep the group together?" And "Augustine, so you're in hot pursuit of the two that ran down the stairs. Suddenly from further down the corridor you hear the steady beat of the goblin war drums. Heartened, the two orcs start calling out to their brethren and pick up speed. Do you give chase?" Or "Avon, you run after the Orc as he heads deeper into the labyrinthine tunnels. After a number of twists you're not sure you you know the way back to the others. You're lost and alone in the goblin kingdom. But on the bright side, you're definitely gaining on that puny Orc. Do you keep going deeper into the dungeon?"



That only works if you have already established that his chain does slow him down, or that for some reason you are chasing a lone orc through goblin infested tunnels. Sometimes, you just don't want a scout to get away to warn others, even if they are miles away.

Writing a narrative that is either counter to earlier fiction or just doesn't make sense to fit a lack of rules is just stupid. Also, leather is apparently as heavy as chain and as effective. I'm not going to make a chain wearing player slower simply because that is the fictional look he had on his character sheet instead of the equally effective leather. Even worse, if you look at the rules your average fighter can carry a load of 28 before getting slowed down at all, so why is that armor that weighs at most, 1/7th of his typical load BEFORE he even feels the effects now suddenly slowing him up?

A similar situation would be using 1 Hack'n'Slash roll to determine if you win or lose an encounter.

I think that in this kind of an instance you need to have a roll, just because the game is a narrative game does not mean I or the players should know every outcome.

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Dungeon World / Re: Running Chases
« on: January 05, 2013, 12:09:07 AM »
Letting the fiction entirely determine what's going to happen is basically just GM fiat. At that point why even have rolls? Just determine it all with the fiction.

I like a healthy balance of die rolls and narrative. Situation example "Ok, the orcs split up, what do you do", players split up, "Alright, you split up to chase the orcs, some head for the kitchen the others head towards a guard tower." Players respond with narrative that ends with dead orcs. Done, chase over. OR you can toss in a die roll, that way they can fail and NOT feel cheated by your decision that they should get caught, and if you are going to just let them win anyway, whats the point of playing since there is no challenge.

Now I know my opinion doesn't have to be yours, and that's fine. We have our own tables. But I would much prefer a setup like this.

"The orcs take off in different directions, some head straight for the kitchen doors, the others run off towards a guard tower. What do you do."

Players, "We split up and chase them" Insert descriptive narrative about their attempts. "Ok, roll *insert skill*. Well, looks like you catch up to the orcs running toward the guard tower, however only one of you chasing the orcs toward the kitchen manages to catch up to them, what do you do?"

What follows is probably some Volley/Hack'n'Slash/spellslinging or if no resistance just killing them from behind. It adds some unknown and chance to the situation making it, in my opinion, more interesting. Obviously for longer chases involving more variables you should have more rolls. Defy Danger to avoid barrels or low hanging branches, to cross rivers, jump gorges, jump horses over things, etc.

What a game should never be is entirely decided by the GM or the players.

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Dungeon World / Re: Running Chases
« on: January 04, 2013, 04:33:13 PM »
The problem with ju following fiction is that the players know they will catch them as long as they don't get distracted.

Uncertain results add tension.

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Dungeon World / Re: Running Chases
« on: January 04, 2013, 04:12:04 PM »
I would a defy danger with a stat appropfiate to the fiction. 10+ you can close/ attack if.close enough, 7-9 you are just keeping up/ attck if close enough but fall behind after, 6- you fall behind.

Give them a short but reasonable amount of fictional time before their prey gets to where tgey are going.

in essence improvise

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Dungeon World / Re: Improved combat moves
« on: January 02, 2013, 06:41:37 PM »
Understood.

Just trying to understand how mechanics and changes to them work. Thanks for the insight though.

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Dungeon World / Re: Improved combat moves
« on: January 02, 2013, 06:30:46 PM »
Ah ok. I chose 2 rolls because it gives more specific chances of something to go bad. Like Defy to some a zombie and attempt to hack another. Fail on the first maybe it grabs your shield. Choose to keep it and not attack or let go. Fail on hack. Shoved the zombie but the other lunges while you are distracted.

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Dungeon World / Re: Improved combat moves
« on: January 02, 2013, 03:54:04 PM »
Why would you need these moves?

We played the other day and I just used rolls to determine outcome of fiction. Example: Paladin describes tryin to hit a zombie aside with his shield while attcking another with his sword. Rolled an 11 on defy danger with str and a 10  Hack n Slash. According to rolls and fiction a zombie got knocked over and another got slashed.

If this is wrong let me know. Just getting into DW.

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