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Messages - mean_liar

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Apocalypse World / Re: Increasing difficulty? PC's never fail?
« on: July 17, 2012, 11:36:38 PM »
You can mischaracterize our play if that helps, but that's weaksauce strawmanning. "High-functioning sociopaths" was pinpoint accurate, but "roll to dodge" is just massaging yourself.

It's clear that AW isn't a game for us. I went into the game thinking of playing Lord Humongous in a psychically-charged post-apocalypse wasteland. Apparently, the game is more Days of Our Apocalypse rather than Road Warrior or The Road. That's fine, but... not exactly the sort of flavor that we felt came out in the aesthetic style of the rulebook.

To each their own.

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Apocalypse World / Re: Increasing difficulty? PC's never fail?
« on: July 11, 2012, 07:49:23 AM »
That was actually part of the problem: once it became apparent that everything was disposable, then... everything became disposable.

Maintaining the tension of keeping NPC important yet completely expendable is a tough lift. For us, once it was clear that NPCs (and gear, and just about anything) could be eliminated by an endless number of methods, it became difficult to ascribe any weight to them. No one mourns toilet paper. The only schemes that mattered were our own, since NPCs were just there to impart pathos and import rather than able to actually meaningfully affect the story.

That's actually a large part of their expendability: they have no mechanical role in the system other than being there to try to marginally fuck with you - say shit, do shit, whatever - but as they can't effectively roll dice against you, they just push you to the limit and force you to make the roll... at +3 or more. Their large and obvious divorce from the mechanics of action resolution naturally divorces them from heavy PC consideration. In some sense the game plays like a superhero game, in that most folk you encounter provide only noise and background, and only supervillians - Fronts - really can do anything meaningful. Toss in the post-apocalypse despair and it's little wonder to me why I marauded through the game like the Punisher.

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Apocalypse World / Re: Increasing difficulty? PC's never fail?
« on: July 10, 2012, 09:29:37 AM »
HAHA no one cared. I mean, I remember the name of the gang leader, Kettle, and his Grotesque aide de camp which escaped (Gurt), but mourning the dead was something we got over after the first game. As soon as it became clear that awful things were going to happen to the NPCs (hard moves!), there seemed little point to get attached to them: they were disposable. The MC tried, laid out the names, gave stories, fleshed things out, but it got clear, quickly, that they were distractions or obstacles.

You can only stare into the Abyss so long before it stares back. For us, that was about one session in.

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Apocalypse World / Re: Increasing difficulty? PC's never fail?
« on: July 05, 2012, 03:42:14 PM »
We weren't antisocial: we were effective. With Sharps at +3 (or greater) and Hards at +3 (or greater), it gets pretty trivial to find out who your enemies are and then eliminate them. Apocalypse World's mechanics encourage some seriously easy mind person reading.

I mean, why pillage farmers when you can make a better world with, say, a windmill powered by hope, and then convince those farmers to join up with you because you basically can't lose gang fights, are being nice, and are devastatingly effective at eliminating threats the moment they're detected? This wasn't about HAHA NO ONE CAN STOP US KICK THAT PUPPY FOR FUN, it was more, "hey with a few dierolls we know more than everything we care to about our opposition and then with a few more we can eliminate them and a few more by the Angel and Savvyhead we can invent all kinds of mechanical and biological solutions to resolve the immediate post-apocalypse-ness in this neck of the woods".

I mean, the disease cure was brutal and effective - eliminate the sick, heal the well. So was eliminating the raiding gangs and using the power vacuum to insert our own gang as armed transport and trade facilitators. So was a lot of other "find evil, shoot it in the face" sort of solutions.

If anything, the "realness" made things trivial; it seemed only contrived crapsack grimdarkness would keep the challenge coming. The AW mechanics support some pretty easy rides to glory: playing it real made the PCs' jobs easier.

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Apocalypse World / Re: Increasing difficulty? PC's never fail?
« on: July 05, 2012, 07:28:20 AM »
At no point did any of the players or their characters give a shit about NPCs. The characters were always interested in our own particular goals, but NPCs that couldn't get on board were eliminated with prejudice. Pogroms solve more troubles than negotiations.

Not only that, but there seemed to be few goals that the mechanics made too tricky: need to have the Savvyhead build a tank/have the Angel cure the rare disease/anything else? Get your list of O NO ingredients and then... apparently there's almost no trouble that a Seize by Force won't solve. Hard drives the plot, everything else is just there to make things interesting on the way.

I mean, "change someone's ways"? LOL. No. Shoot them in the face, then nick their shit.

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Apocalypse World / Re: Increasing difficulty? PC's never fail?
« on: July 01, 2012, 08:09:09 PM »
Grim, considering the game is now six sessions in, and difficulty as a generic concern was eliminated at least one, probably two sessions ago. I was under the impression that the game's lifespan would be longer.

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Apocalypse World / Re: Increasing difficulty? PC's never fail?
« on: June 30, 2012, 12:56:49 PM »
One adjustment would be needed for the above Level/Difficulty mechanic: no adjusted test can be made at greater than +4.

This prevents Difficulty from overly influencing tests, since you still want a failure on a roll of 2 regardless of the situation.

Another adjustment for consideration is rather than Level being a character trait, it's a trait solely tied to just one Move (maybe Basic-only, just to limit the design effort required to develop the various Difficulty benchmarks). This slows down the rate of mechanical character improvement relative to Advancements taken, as well as keeps characters a little more focused in what they're so wonderful at.

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Apocalypse World / Re: Increasing difficulty? PC's never fail?
« on: June 30, 2012, 12:36:44 AM »
As a character in that game with +3 Hard able to perform as any stat for any basic test other than Sharp (which the character has at +3) and Hot, well... yeah.

Not only that, but having a Savvyhead's Oftener Right to call on, with the Quarantine's Need to Know, most every test is made at +5.

As a Touchstone, I can just straight-up nominate a character to disarm/disable/kill. So, that gang? It's a weapon belonging to another character. I can disarm it. If need be I can kill the enemy gang leader.

I mean, sure, they have to be in range. That's not really a big deal, especially if I get to burn two holds on that Indomitable test and 1, cover range with a machete in hand and then 2, disarm/disable/kill.

There's little need to read a sitch or person, or manipulate or seduce them if you're going to just steamroll through whatever's in front of you; maybe ask a few NPCs for their advice on the way to maybe pick up another +1 if you think you need it (a roll using +3 Hard, +1 Need to Know means only a roll of 2 fails) and combat becomes trivial. Reading is interesting in that it gives you insight into other entity's motivations, but being able to trivialize them is a little deflating for a MC.

I know that stacking enemies - namely, overwhelming Indomitable with multiple, dangerous foes (perhaps even necessitating a "What's the nearest escape route" Sharp test at +3) is an answer, but when a character is otherwise acting pretty low-key until the shit hits the fan that comes off as a "rocks fall, everybody dies" kind of response.

I feel for the MC. I do. There are a few contrived situations where perhaps "rocks fall" is a congruous approach. But the larger trouble is that challenges don't scale, and that trouble remains.

An approach much like gang-gang warfare would be a good hack, where Level or some other generic measure of awesomeness beyond stats can be used. A Level X character facing a Level Y challenge is a net mod of +(X-Y) to the final roll. It's a simple mechanic, easily understood, and only lacking a measure of X and Y... but given AW's "fuck it" approach to mechanics, I imagine no one would be particularly distraught to apply Level (or Magnificence, or Animus, or whatever one would want to title it) as an advance, have it require all stats at -2 or greater, cost a typical XP advance, AND lower all stats by -1 when taken (as it effectively adds +1 to all stat tests), and go off on your merry way.

I mean, some benchmark Level (or Difficulty, or Challenge, or what-have-you) should be defined for every basic test such that an MC would have a decent guideline to judge test parameters (namely its Difficulty) according to examples (ie., reading a lover's person is Difficulty -2, reading a stranger's person is Difficulty 0, reading a shadowy figure in interacted with within the maelstrom who may or may not actually exist as a complete persona is Difficulty 3).

Right now, "fuck the PCs up their weak stat" is not only inadequate and contrived, it's not addressing the underlying issue of difficulty not scaling. There can be a better solution, and I'd encourage other MCs with difficulty issues to examine the idea of Level/Difficulty.

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