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Messages - RetryAgain

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Apocalypse World / Re: Chopper Custom Move for Padding Out Gang
« on: December 14, 2015, 09:12:38 PM »
Audient: This move wasn't supposed to imply that people can't decide to leave. And I agree with what Ebok said about some people choosing to die rather than join the gang. It was a very valid criticism. That said, the idea of forcing people in general to join your gang with intimidation/manipulation - at least initially - sits okay with me, so that's just a difference in opinion we have.

Ebok: I agree very strongly with your principles of focusing on the interesting narrative that results from the consequences of a character's actions, yet the idea of making a Chopper go gangless for 3-5 sessions as they piece together a new gang as quickly as narratively possible... makes me a bit uncomfortable: to go smoothly, it'd require a patient player with the same mindset as us, unless it were done off-screen. I'm a bit reluctant to ask that of anyone. With the right player(s), I think it would work super well, and would be the ideal solution, for sure.

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Apocalypse World / Re: Chopper Custom Move for Padding Out Gang
« on: December 11, 2015, 09:17:20 PM »
Unfortunately, our game ended, so the move didn't recieve proper testing. Anyway...

Hmm. The reason I wanted a move for this was to make sure that the Chopper could have a gang at all times. The book mentions that you shouldn't aim to take away what makes characters interesting: my reasoning is that if guns make the Gunlugger interesting, then the gang does that for the Chopper times 100. I WAS offering them niche protection because a Chopper without a gang is a playbook without moves/uniqueness, which is the worst fate a character can meet, in my opinion. A Chopper sans gang would be a very boring thing to me, though I realize that's just my personal opinion now. I can't behind the idea of "The Chopper has no gang? Too bad, so sad" even if that's the idea I'm supposed to have.

Taking what Ebok and Jonathan said into consideration, I think it would be best to make this move into a possible love-letter type thing. Otherwise, just leaving as a Seduce/Manipulate, either with hot or hard, works well enough.


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Apocalypse World / Re: Chopper Custom Move for Padding Out Gang
« on: November 29, 2015, 05:29:31 PM »
1st paragraph response: The reason why is because I want some more interesting options than; they join you and all's good or they don't. I find success that might not be what's best more interesting than failure or success. I'd also ideally like to make the Chopper's gang more mechanically interesting. Right now I just don't feel like they have much going on for them, at least in terms of playbook moves.

I guess the heart of the matter is that, for me, specialized moves with atypical outcomes are more interesting to me than generalized moves with the same outcomes across situations. As a caveat, I admit that too many of them wouldn't work. This definitely isn't something I'm suggesting for everyone, just for those who might like it or find it useful.

2nd paragraph: Again, it's not necessarily about what's wise. I originally made this move crueler than it is because I wanted it to match up with the Pack Alpha, which to me implies that the gang can sometimes be more of a liability than a boon. That's at the heart of the Chopper, for me. Keep in mind this is not something I'm suggesting every Chopper has to use.

3rd: It's not meant to be the only way to get new members into a gang, it's just meant to be one of them. It's very true that this might be more helpful in MY AW game run by ME, if I'm accidentally doing things too far from the general AW experience. I'll also admit I did make this for a specific player in my game, though I thought it might be useful or neat to others. I could easily be wrong though.

PS: This is definitely not hiring a guy. It is more like kidnapping. Think of when a pirate boards an enemy ship and forces the other ship's crew to work for him. It's that, minus pirates. I agree, definitely not needed. What I was hoping for was something more like "Neat!"

I'm about to start running a session, I'll give the player a brief rundown of what you explained, and see if he opts to try it out or not, then report back with what extent it worked or did not work if he tries it. Also, as of right now, it's meant as a Chopper base move, not an advance. Sorry I didn't make that clear. That said, it is meant to be Chopper/gang specific.

PSS: That's a WAY better name! Thank you so damn much! Even if this move doesn't turn out well, my terrible attempts at a name for it were driving me insane.

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Apocalypse World / Re: Chopper Custom Move for Padding Out Gang
« on: November 29, 2015, 12:47:52 PM »
First off, you're not condescending, and if you were it might be appropriate, as this is only the second campaign I've GMed, and the first hardly counts. You seem much more experienced with running AW as it is designed than I am.


Join me or die: When you and your gang have an utterly dominating position on a few NPCs or less not belonging to another PC, and try “convincing” them it’s in their best interest to join your gang, roll +hard: On a 10+, they join you at no cost and are fairly motivated, at least for now: choose none and take +1 to gang-related moves. On a 7-9, they join you for now, but with a catch: choose 1. On a miss, they join you for now, but you’ll really wish they didn’t.
  • You have to put down the rebellious half first or they’ll be out of commission for a while after you’re done with them.
  • They’re fucking thieves, alright, but not always in your favor. The GM gains 1 hold to take something from you when you need it most. Can’t be countered by the Fucking Thieves move.
  • This crew isn’t as useful as you first thought and is going to take some breaking in. Lose 1 gang benefit or gain 1 gang vulnerability, the MC will tell you which, until the next time you use this move or the problem is resolved, as appropriate.

Sorry, this move was definitely not meant to work on PCs, I just forgot to specify that. When it comes to NPCs that you know would NEVER join the gang, well, there are already mechanics for that: the advanced Going Aggro and Seduce or Manipulate moves. This move is supposed to read like a 12+ Go Aggro. One of the things I like about this game is that sometimes you can make things happen that shouldn't be able to happen, cause you're a badass. There are no truly in-any-way untouchable NPCs, if going by AW principles and rules. That said,  I understand the problem of a major "antagonist" suddenly being a happy member of your gang for only a 10+ or even 7-9. There a few possible solutions I can see. Let me know which you think is best or if you have any alternative solutions.
1. Specify that the move can be used only at the MC's discretion, which goes against the "say yes or roll dice" principle, so this option isn't my favorite.
2. Specify that the move can be used only on nameless NPCs (because nameless NPCs are never that strong-willed). This also isn't ideal to me, because I like the idea of named NPCs joining your gang. It establishes some on-scene prior history with gang members, which I think could be neat. This is negotiable though.
3. Rework the move so that even at best, there is potential for sabotage by vindictive and tactical NPCs of importance. This is definitely doable.
4. Specify that no matter the result, they only join your gang "for now" (whatever the reason), and might choose to leave almost immediately. This is the one I choose for now, but it's not my preferred choice either.

I reworded the move requirements so you should no longer be able to "lose ten battles and win the war," take other character's gang members, or increase gang size without putting in a lot of time, as well as not using your gang as a weapon for many sessions.

Also, I originally said: "You could just say they gain gang members when the time seems right narrative-wise, or you can use this if it seems useful or interesting to you." What I realize now, is that this move is meant to be used in addition to the "They need to get more guys for their gang, so they do and the MC attaches strings" attitude. This move is meant to replicate something I think fits in this type of game, as well as fill out gang members: Overwhelming someone and then demanding they work for you. (This is also why the barter moves aren't scratching the right itch, though I failed to mention this motivation in my first post). That wouldn't be the only way to gain gang members, and everything else could be handled as you described!

Hopefully I've de-macroed the move enough to be acceptable. By the way, since this move is definitely supposed to be more Go Aggro than Seduce or Manipulate, one could argue that the Going Aggro basic move could be good enough for what I'm trying to do here, and they wouldn't be wrong. I just personally wanted something surrounding this idea that was a little more specialized.

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Apocalypse World / Chopper Custom Move for Padding Out Gang
« on: November 28, 2015, 02:45:32 PM »
Come along! NOW!: When “convincing” someone or a small group it’s in their best interest to join your gang, roll +hard: On a 10+, they join you at no cost and are fairly motivated: choose none and take +1 to gang-related moves. On a 7-9, they join you, but with a catch: choose 1. On a miss, they join you for now, but you’ll really wish they didn’t.
  • You have to put down the rebellious half first or they’ll be out of commission for a while after you’re done with them.
  • They’re fucking thieves, alright, but not always in your favor. The GM gains 1 hold to take something from you when you need it most. Can’t be countered by the Fucking Thieves move.
  • This crew isn’t as useful as you first thought and is going to take some breaking in. Lose 1 gang benefit or gain 1 gang vulnerability, the MC will tell you which, until the next time you use this move or the problem is resolved, as appropriate.

As far as I know, the Chopper has no built in way to replace gang members, and I'm unaware if there's already something like this on the forums.

You could just say they gain gang members when the time seems right narrative-wise, or you can use this if it seems useful or interesting to you. An adviser and I made the move, and I'm open to criticism for improving it. Depending of the feel of your campaign, I might also suggest making this move more cruel, by making the 10+ result choose 1, and the 7-9 result choose 2.

P.S.: What it really needs is a better name.

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Apocalypse World / Re: Threat Analysis
« on: November 07, 2015, 04:59:17 PM »
How does one like, favorite, or upvote on this site? This is really good stuff!

Dangan Ronpa reference FTW! Monobear is the best example of a perversion of birth ever!

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Apocalypse World / Re: AW Playbook/Character Assessment
« on: November 07, 2015, 01:23:04 PM »
Solid side note: I want to someday see a brainer who's nice, pleasant, moral, and innocent, and all of their weird powers are subconscious. (Or, a non-brainer who takes brainer moves as their supernatural subconscious awakens.)

- Alex

I agree! That'd be really cool! The Midas of Apocalypse World would be a pretty neat concept!

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Apocalypse World / Re: AW Playbook/Character Assessment
« on: September 25, 2015, 01:25:05 PM »
Fair enough. We have some differences in opinion. A Gunlugger can take Insano Like Draino, Bloodcrazed, and NOT TO BE FUCKED WITH and be a chivalrous knight, but when looking at the moves descriptively that's not the picture you arrive at naturally. It's also up for debate whether "Baddest ass in the room" is a fair role when there's also a Faceless in the room. Here's the intro for the Brainer: "Brainers are the weird psycho psychic mindfucks of Apocalypse World. They have brain control, puppet strings, creepy hearts, dead souls, and eyes like broken things. They stand in your peripheral vision and whisper into your head, staring. They clamp lenses over your eyes and read your secrets." Doesn't read like nice guy, though you can make a Brainer into one.

I'll acquiesce to your other points. If you want to play a nice guy with psychic powers that specifically allow you to read people, then absolutely play a Brainer! It's the only playbook with those options! If you want to play a person who operates an entire hold, absolutely play a Hardholder! That's the only playbook that gives you that option! This is kind of common sense.

Again, this is for the player who doesn't know exactly what they want or can't choose between two options, and the MC who has done everything they can to help them choose. This assessment is meant to serve as a problem solver, not an option limiter. I want to make clear that we both agree that autonomous choice of playbook is ideal.

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Apocalypse World / Re: AW Playbook/Character Assessment
« on: September 25, 2015, 12:39:29 AM »
Deadman: Of course you can play almost every playbook however you want to, but some obviously lean towards specific personality types, although I admit how heavily they lean varies. I read the moves not only for their descriptions, but also for what the name of the move itself implies. Also, this assessment is not for people who know what playbook they want to use, it's for the new players who don't want to look through every playbook or don't have the time. And of course you can always choose to take moves from other playbooks later to fit your character idea, but this assessment is to help new players start off as close to what they want as possible.

Let's take your idea for a Gunlugger, for example. 3 out of the 7 moves imply you're kind of crazy/violent. None of the other basic playbooks have that many moves pointing you in that direction. You've also got weapons called "Fuck Off Weapons." Starting off with your Hard as the highest stat isn't an accident either. The playbook definitely gives off a certain vibe. Can you be a friendly and reasonable Gunlugger without much difficulty? Yes, but let's be honest, few people are going to take the Gunlugger for "Prepared for the Inevitable." Can you play an Angel that kills everyone who arrives in their infirmary and never heals anyone, including PCs? Can you play a Brainer who never fucks with anyone's mind and respects the sanctity of free will? Can you play a Solace who wants to stir shit up? Yes, but that's not what they are designed towards.

Granted, some playbooks are much harder to tie to a personality type to than others. Hardholders and Operators for instance can be played just about any way, as their moves don't really highlight a personality. I don't think you're wrong about the playbooks primarily being about your place in the world, either, but I don't think that's all there is to it. If someone wants to decide what playbook to use based on the character's overall role (mechanic, medic, gang leader), then that's done easily enough without an assessment and I encourage them to do so as it's definitely a smart way to choose a playbook. There are also a minority without clearly defined roles; the Gunlugger, Faceless, and Skinner (stripper?).

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Apocalypse World / AW Playbook/Character Assessment
« on: September 18, 2015, 06:50:25 PM »
The first document contains just the questions, the second contains the information for scoring based on the answers.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BVS-QGKmH86NJC1PIiELtcf6CJDwBLP87LI8Tj-fLgs/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dCxIvACBRR8VnP_VmIQe46iYnc6q_Xz4OKmtK_OrSIE/edit?usp=sharing

Guide: The numbers before the playbook name indicate "points."
You add up points based on the selected answer to each question to help determine a class for someone's idea of a character.

Intro: I was running an AW game yesterday and one of our players had a hard time choosing a playbook. One of my friends playing with us jokingly said I should come up with a personality assessment to determine which playbook a player should use, kinda like Fallout. Today, this. I figured some groups have that player who just can never decide. This is for those people/MCs who have to deal with those people. It's my first time doing something like this so it's very far from perfect, but hey, maybe one single person on the internet will find it useful. If you've got any thoughts, please put them in a comment below.

Edit: I just noticed that I missed Brainer options in 2 of the questions. Major oversight on my part. I'll fix that within 24 hours.

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