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Messages - philaros

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1
Dungeon World / Re: Death's Door
« on: March 03, 2011, 04:58:32 AM »
Speaking of that, I don't know whether you've come up with a Monster move to cover the "energy drain" ability that several undead have, but I want to advocate that you not follow the D&D standard that energy drain causes you to lose experience and levels. Although that can be rationalized, it still makes a lot more sense for energy drain to do something like reduce your physical ability scores than to remove your experience and levels (and consequently, for Dungeon World, your moves).

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Dungeon World / Re: Racial Moves
« on: February 26, 2011, 04:47:17 AM »
Halflings - Yup, same move, intentional, but only because I couldn't think of a better one. I had a hell of a time figuring out what a halfling does that makes them special that I can easily reflect in the rules.

Well, that's because halflings are lame and boring. (Actually, third edition made me like halflings again, by moving them away from the hobbit model toward active adventurers, more like Dragonlance's kender but without the childlike / compulsive kleptomaniac nature.) d.anderson's suggestions are good, and along the lines of what I was thinking.

Half-orcs - +1 Piercing makes sense. +1 damage isn't a big deal, but it does suck that they wouldn't see the bonus until second level at best. So maybe Half-orc clerics get Inquisitor for free, possibly +1 damage as well? There's also nothing that says you couldn't write your own dice rolling spells for those levels.

Yeah, I thought about giving them Inquisitor (or Life and Death) to start, but I wasn't sure whether that'd be too much. That works. d.anderson's half-orc suggestions are also good, but I think I'll stick with mine for my campaign.

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Dungeon World / Re: Handling Hirelings
« on: February 21, 2011, 04:17:36 AM »
For the Bard, I could see going two ways.

One, call the skill "Minstrel", and follow Noofy's suggestion by having the skill add to the Carouse and Outstanding Warrants moves.

Two, call the skill something like "Tale-spinner" and have it add a bonus to Spout Lore.

Either of those could also provide a bonus to Parley, if that's not over-powerful to have that in addition.

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Dungeon World / Re: Racial Moves
« on: February 21, 2011, 01:03:35 AM »
One thought for a half-orc cleric is to give them a move similar to the human wizard move: a +1 to any rolls made for spells with a particular tag (but not for casting such spells). Due to considerations of my particular campaign setting, I'm inclined toward Death spells, but currently there's no level 5 spell with a death tag, and the level 7 and 9 Death spells do not feature any dice rolling. So Damaging would be better, though I wonder if that's almost too good. It may be counterbalanced by the fact that clerics don't automatically have access to Damaging spells, they have to choose the Inquisitor move to get them; on the other hand, that may just make the whole idea lame.

Cleric—Half-Orc: Take +1 to any dice rolled for a Damaging spell (but not for casting Damaging spells).

Incidentally: Inflict Light Wounds = 1d6, Inflict Moderate Wounds = 2d8, Inflict Critical Wounds = 1d10. Shouldn't Moderate be 1d8 rather than 2d8?

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Dungeon World / Re: Racial Moves
« on: February 19, 2011, 05:24:17 AM »
Finally, it's late and I'm tired, which is why I ended up failing to suggest a second halfling move or devise a full alternate human thief move. However, I do want to mention that I'm planning to add half-orcs to my campaign setting, so I need to come up with a few half-orc moves.

In first edition AD&D, half-orcs could be clerics, fighters, or thieves (or assassins). I figure I'll definitely want moves for half-orc fighters and thieves, but I don't know if I'll give them clerics too; I probably will, given some of the setting details I've come up with.

Anyhow, I figure I'll give the half-orc fighter the move that halfling fighters currently have, as it makes more sense to me.
Fighter—Half-Orc: You're tough enough to shrug off some damage. You have +1 Armor.

Because the original AD&D half-orc could advance unlimited levels only as an assassin, it seems like a good idea to give the half-orc thief a move that reflects that origin. Maybe something like this.
Thief—Half-Orc: You have a sharp eye for your victim's weak points. Your attacks always deal +Piercing 1.

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Dungeon World / Re: Racial Moves
« on: February 19, 2011, 05:00:33 AM »
The human racial move for the thief class—"You start with an extra 5 gold"—seems pretty weak. It's a one-time advantage, unlike all the other racial moves, and although there are probably ways to finagle things so that the extra gold literally buys you some longer-term or important advantage, by default it's really just not effective in the long term compared to any of the others.

I don't have a complete alternate suggestion in mind yet. I'm thinking about something to do with the universality of humans, either something that lets the human thief blend or easily slip away into a crowd, or something that lets the thief disguise him or herself as some other kind of humanoid.

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Dungeon World / Re: Racial Moves
« on: February 19, 2011, 04:40:32 AM »
So first, I want to point out that the halfling racial move is identical for both the fighter class and the thief class, unlike any of the other racial moves. I expect that's just an oversight. If it's intentional, it's boring, as well as inconsistent with the variety of other racial moves.

Second, that existing halfling move is "Your small size makes you hard to hit. You get +1 Armor." Shouldn't they instead get +1 to the Dodge basic move? Or maybe to Position? An Armor bonus suggests that they're tougher than normal, not that they're harder to hit. I realize in D&D they do get an AC bonus for the same kind of reasoning, but since Dungeon World has a dodge basic move, the bonus might as well be applied there.

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Dungeon World / Racial Moves
« on: February 19, 2011, 03:41:23 AM »
I've got a few things to say about some of the existing racial moves—it turns out more than I thought, so I'm going to put those in subsequent posts.

I've also been thinking about making some new racial moves, partly because of my complaints, and partly because I've been thinking about having other races available in my campaign instead of the standard ones. And maybe you have some ideas like that, too! So here's a thread for them.

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Dungeon World / Re: Handling Hirelings
« on: February 17, 2011, 05:29:20 AM »
I think we're all pretty much on the same page. A lot of what Tony said is what I was talking about as well—no surprise, since he's running the game I'm playing—but Tony explained some of it better. And I like that he more explicitly addressed how the DM principles and moves apply toward using hirelings.

One thing neither Tony nor I mentioned in this thread is that part of Tony's original thinking behind hirelings, as mentioned in the Apocalypse D&D 3.0 draft, was to use hirelings as a way of managing variable numbers of players over time. If someone new joins the group, you could "promote" a hireling to be that player's character (especially if it's just for one session); or if someone drops out or isn't available one week, their character could be "demoted" to hireling status. That's part of the reason why I think it's important to have some kind of class trait for hirelings, even if as hirelings they have very limited or no use of any class abilities. That said, I'm not sure that that kind of functionality is easy or desirable to incorporate into the hireling rules.

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Dungeon World / Re: Handling Hirelings
« on: February 15, 2011, 04:30:20 AM »
Okay, first, although I did say the class trait provides access to the basic moves for that class, I was really still thinking of the older version of Dungeon World in which each class has more or less a primary move: the fighter can Bend Bars/Lift Gates, the ranger can Hunt and Track, the wizard can Cast a Spell… Obviously even in that version it wasn't quite that clear cut, for example you'd probably want a cleric hireling both for casting cleric spells and for turning undead. But that's where I was starting from, and I think for hirelings that's something you'd want to spell out, that a hireling has a specialist skill that you have some way of accessing, though not necessarily automatically and without cost.

Because I'll tell you, as a player, the reason I want hirelings is to help me handle unusual things that otherwise would just block or kill me. I think I mentioned that in Jason's AP thread but not in my hireling post here (or on my LiveJournal). There'd be a situation like, say, my wizard's been hit with a chaos curse, and to remove it, I've been given a quest that involves hunting down a peryton. Well, that's a trek into the wild to hunt a monstrous animal; I want to get the aid of a ranger. Or there's a known threat of undead skeleton warriors plaguing a trade route; I'm not going off to deal with that without a cleric in tow. [And since after this point I ramble on about a related topic, I'll say here that I do like what you're thinking, Sage, on how to incorporate this.]

What I'm not interested in is having nameless meat shields. I'm a hero! If my party doesn't dare venture forth without expendable pseudo-people, well, we don't deserve the title heroes. But more to the point, consider this. One of the three agendas in Apocalypse World is "Make (it) seem real", and one of the principles is "Name everyone, make everyone human." Dungeon World's agendas and principles are somewhat different and don't include those two specific ones, and that's fine; for the old-school dungeon-crawl feel, you don't necessarily want to make everyone human. But, if you make the hirelings real people, with names and cares and interests, then you open up lots of interesting possibilities. At the most basic level, hirelings become opportunities for the DM to use the moves "Use up their resources", "Put someone in a spot", or even "Show a downside to their class, race, or equipment." But also, when hirelings have names and personalities—even if they don't, in fact, offer special benefits of their class—the players will be more interested and more involved in the game, maybe not all the time, but at least some of the time.

In the first and ongoing Apocalypse D&D game that Tony's running for me and his brother-in-law Gabe, we started out with two men-at-arms hirelings and have picked up both a cleric and a paladin along the way, and they have provided a lot of interesting drama and hard choices for us as players, simply because Tony's played them as named people. I decided early on that my fighter was the fifth son of the local baron, and so the men-at-arms were not just hirelings but my father's soldiers. Suddenly that made me responsible for their well-being, which Tony has gleefully exploited. We found a section of the dungeon that's a lost and corrupted dwarven temple, and our cleric happens to be a dwarf who declares it's his duty to cleanse the temple; do we part ways with him, or aid him? If we'd simply parted ways, would he have been willing to help us out later with healing needs if we came crawling back?

That's where I'm coming from.

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Dungeon World / Re: Handling Hirelings
« on: February 11, 2011, 03:27:04 AM »
Well, they're hirelings, right? That's why the default Price is gold. It certainly could be other things though, "preaching/conversion" being a good example: the hireling joins on the condition that he gets to regularly preach his faith to others.

Going by the basis of Apocalypse World, Price wouldn't work quite the way you're thinking. It's not a move, it's a tag, right? The players aren't ever rolling Price, so the DM wouldn't get hold to spend. But the general principle works out similarly. Tonks fails his Order Hirelings move, and: "Timothy insists that yes, now really is the time, when a mob of ghouls is approaching, to hear his sermon on why you wouldn't be in this mess if you were a faithful devotee of Sun-ra. What do you do?" Or, "Ranulf says 'Gee boss, that 10 gold you paid me yesterday sure seems like a measly amount to die for. I'm not going down that obvious death trap of a kobold tunnel!' What do you do?"

That said, maybe it needs to be more like the Hocus's Followers and Fortunes move. So when you get a hireling, make some roll at the start of each session, and on a hit you get access to the hireling's Class ability, but on a 7-9 or a miss you also have to meet the hireling's Price. Going with that method, the Weakness would be something to invoke on a failed Order Hirelings move. Or maybe you just do away with either Price or Weakness, just have one of those traits for Hirelings.

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brainstorming & development / Disney World
« on: February 10, 2011, 12:38:36 AM »
I'm just going to toss this out here and see if anyone's crazy enough to run with it. It's kind of a joke based on idly thinking "when you wish upon a star"… but I think it actually wouldn't be too difficult to come up with a full set of basic moves.

Stats: Courage, Conscience, Hope, Love, Magic

Wish Upon a Star
When you wish upon a star, roll +hope. On a 10+, choose 2. On a 7-9, choose 1.
* It makes no difference who you are
* Anything your heart desires will come to you
* Fate steps in and sees you through
* Your dreams come true

Give a Little Whistle
When you get in trouble and don't know wrong from right, roll +conscience.
On a 10+, you make the right decision and avoid trouble.
On a 7-9, you can get out of trouble, but there are complications.
On a miss, you blithely give in to temptation without a second thought. You'll probably turn into a donkey.

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Dungeon World / Handling Hirelings
« on: February 10, 2011, 12:30:25 AM »
There was some discussion in Jason Morningstar's AP thread about how to handle hirelings, and Tony never came back to talk about how he's been doing it. Recently I had some thoughts about general rules, which don't really address the questions from that thread, but I figured if I posted my ideas here, that might coax Tony out of the woodwork to talk about it, and also I could get some feedback on my ideas or give others some food for their own thoughts.

I originally posted this on my LiveJournal (http://philaros.livejournal.com/166680.html); I'm leaving out the introductory stuff.

As a player, I've felt frustrated a few times in past games, not really having a good idea what abilities the hirelings have or how to get them to use those abilities on my behalf. So here are a few things I'm thinking.

Following on the model for gangs, hirelings should come defined with a few basic stats and traits, which provide guidance to both the player and DM how to use them in the game. As with monsters, the basic stats for a hireling would be level, hit points (or hit dice), armor, and damage caused by an attack. Additionally, hirelings should come with at least these three tags indicating their traits: class, price, and weakness or failure condition.
  • The class trait indicates the basic class moves that this hireling has access to. So a fighter hireling can Bend Bars or Lift Gates, a cleric hireling can Turn Undead and Cast a Cleric Spell, a ranger hireling can Hunt and Track, and so forth. A hireling can be expected to use these abilities as appropriate during the adventure, such as in combat, or the player can specifically order the hireling to use the ability. I think that although hirelings can be higher than level 1 (or can advance in levels through adventure), by default they never have access to the advanced class moves—those are advantages for full player characters.
  • The price trait indicates what the hireling needs to be paid on a regular basis for services. It's similar to the surplus trait that followers and holdings have in Apocalypse World. By default hirelings have a price of gold, probably something like 10 gold per level per day. As long as you're meeting the hireling's price, you have access to their class moves.
  • The weakness or failure trait—and I'm not sure what's the best name to call this—indicates how the hireling reacts when the price is not met or as a result of a failed Order Hirelings move. It's similar to the want trait that followers and holdings have in Apocalypse World. By default hirelings have a weakness for desertion, and will flee if confronted with a situation beyond their price ("man, I'm not getting paid enough for this!"). Other possible weaknesses include treachery (attempt to secretly betray the players), mutiny (openly rebel), or despair (do nothing but cower and wait until it's over).

Maybe hirelings should have a fourth basic trait, mercenary, indicating that they're only in this for the money. Then there could be class-specific moves that could replace that trait and also change the price: for example, a paladin might get one that replaces mercenary with loyal and changes the price to upkeep (providing food and shelter). Or maybe just a general special move open to all players, Retain Hirelings, that lets them pick an option when attempting to hire hirelings.

Combat-wise, follow the general Apocalypse World rules for NPCs or gangs. (That's all I wrote in my post; essentially, use hit points and taking damage the same way you'd do it for anyone else. But it'd be nice to have a more abstract and easier way to handle that for hirelings.)

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Dungeon World / Re: After-Action Report
« on: January 13, 2011, 10:14:28 PM »
Tony's out of town right now, but hopefully when he's back he can say a bit about how he's been running hirelings, since we've been using them right from the start in our game. My impression is that the hirelings have a certain number of hit points and that they take a point of damage for each round they're engaged in combat, but I don't know how accurate that is.

I know that our hirelings haven't been looking for autonomy, but I have had to pay them regularly in addition to using the "Order Hirelings" move on occasion.

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Dungeon World / Re: Death's Door
« on: August 12, 2010, 11:29:21 PM »
"You're out of the action and left for dead. The DM decides where and when you wake up."

Yes, that's better.

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