Barf Forth Apocalyptica

barf forth apocalyptica => Apocalypse World => Topic started by: Paul T. on December 24, 2017, 01:41:52 PM

Title: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Paul T. on December 24, 2017, 01:41:52 PM
I started running a short-term (a handful of sessions) campaign of AW last week, and wasn't sure how creative, active, or involved my players would be, since they're hardened D&D heads and I haven't really played with them a whole lot.

To do a little prep and to make sure we had something to go on right off the bat, regardless of how passive or active the players might be, I put together this "campaign starter".

Feel free to read, comment, or use for your own games!

It could also work for a one-shot, if you make a strong effort to move through all the steps quickly, with little elaboration.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8r6auj3hyxhfmr3/AW%20Crow%27s%20Flats%20Campaign%20Starter.pdf?dl=0

I'm fooling around with a variety of alternate rules, which you'll find some notes and shorthand for at the end of the document. Feel free to ignore those.

(I'll answer questions about them, if anyone's curious, of course.)
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Paul T. on December 24, 2017, 01:43:24 PM
I stole a few ideas and details (as well as a couple of names) from Vincent's "Hatchet City and Blind-Blue" scenario, which I find fascinating and inspiring.

So far I've played one session, with great success. A few highlights which came out of the setup:

One of the players chose to be Blind-blue, as a Hocus: our Blind-blue turned out to be grotesque and misshapen but *also* magnetic and desirable, so his player quickly explained that Blind-blue was the head of a sort of fertility cult. He believes that the maelstrom has been affecting people's ability to bear children. Since he's unspoiled by the maelstrom himself, he can transmit fertility by physical contact (probably sex, in most cases).

Blind-blue's fertility cult travels around and offers its women as "breeders", providing the desperate people of Apocalypse World with a chance to have healthy children.

Dustwich is the oldest person around, an aged crone who remembers the Golden Age, and the head of the Bargers. However, the players decided that she was also the one who was unexpectedly pregnant! Naturally, there was no question who had done this: it was Blind-blue.

I loved this development, since Dustwich's story now parallels the tale of Sarah from the Old Testament (who had a child at the age of 100 or something close to that).

A couple of problems came up, but they were easily fixed at the table:

* The player of the Angel chose to "inflitrate" someone's inner circles for the Love Letter, and decided that person would be Blind-blue - another PC.

Since we had already established that they were allies and friends, the choices on the list didn't fit well at all.

If you play this, tell the person choosing that love letter explicitly to "point" it at someone they'd like to take down.

The choice to use their Special should only be allowed with the other PC's permission, of course. That's also important to note.

* Start-of-session moves can feel a little redundant, given the strong starting situation for each character. I told them that, since the first session was short (spent most of the time going through setup and making characters), we'd roll those at the start of the second session and onwards.

A tasty tidbit:

One of the players asked, "Given how terrible people's circumstances are in the post-apocalypse, what do they do to distract themselves from their everyday circumstances, and how fucked up everything is?"

Another answered, without hesitation, that they get high on drugs derived from mudfish. Its rectal glands produce a potent toxin, you see. Remove them from the fish while it's still alive (tricky business, that) and squirt that into your eyes, and you get a crazy high.

So, that was a pretty spicy contribution! Turned the mood at the table up a notch.
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Munin on December 26, 2017, 11:21:56 AM
I'd be interested to hear more from this mini-campaign. Let us know how the follow-up sessions go.
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Paul T. on December 26, 2017, 05:44:15 PM
Thanks, Munin.

I'm quite curious myself.

I'm also using a bunch of experimental rules, like different die types in place of the standard 2d6+/- roll, visceral harm, and a couple of others minor changes (like Ebok's altered Seize by Force move).

Currently, I'm looking at the outcomes of the first session, creating threats, and thinking about how the setup contributes to the coming game.

The situation so far is quite interesting, but I find myself wishing I knew more about the PCs. I expect to start the second session with lots of provocative questions.

Does anyone have a favourite trick, scene type, or formula for learning more about the PCs in a more play-active fashion?

I've occasionally used flashback scenes to good effect, and thought about doing that with Hx. However, our particular Hx choices didn't inspire any terribly interesting backstory information, except for one:

We know that Leon, the Savvyhead, got trapped in the maelstrom somehow, while attempting augury in his workspace, and that Seriph (the Angel) pulled him out (it's been implied that he injected Leon either with some sedatives or some stimulants, we didn't specify which).

I may try to frame a flashback to that scene early in the second session to establish their relationship a little more.
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Munin on December 27, 2017, 09:59:00 AM
Does anyone have a favourite trick, scene type, or formula for learning more about the PCs in a more play-active fashion?
I'm always a little careful with flashback scenes - if your players are anything like mine, they seem drawn to doing things in flashbacks that break causality. In the game where the Psychic Maelstrom had something to do with time being broken that was great, but in most cases it just causes headaches.

But if you want to learn more about the PCs' histories with each other, I find that the PC-NPC-PC triangles are a good place to start, because chances are good that someone else was present when that thing that happened in the past went down, and how they interact with that person/those people now informs their past. It also lets you barf some apocalyptica into the history, which is always worth doing.
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Paul T. on December 27, 2017, 11:12:08 AM
That's a fair point. I've always had success with flashback scenes, myself - I tend to frame them very conservatively, leave the timeframe somewhat unspecified, and make it clear what the purpose of the scene is. However, I've never really played with these people before, so it's entirely possible that this will be the time it "doesn't work".

I still like the idea of doing it, however. If I do it right, I'll get a lot of material for the game in short order. I want to find out:

* What the Savvyhead is working on in his workspace. (To push the game along for him - we'll say the project is nearly completed as we go "back to the present".)
* Why that project is dangerous. (For a future threat.)
* What the Angel's relationship is like with the Savvyhead.
* Who else is implicated.

That last point is where your excellent advice to get an NPC involved is going to come in handy.

Your final paragraph about using a PC-NPC-PC triangle for this purpose is along the right lines, I think, but I'm not sure exactly what you're describing. Can you explain a little more, or illustrate with an example?
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Paul T. on December 27, 2017, 11:24:25 AM
A sidenote about my prep/daydreaming:

My current approach is to start to think about themes which are developing in play, based on the players' input, and then find ways to explore or highlight them.

For instance, fertility/pregnancy, children, slavery, and memories of the past seem to be important here.

I'll be looking at ways to draw these out further. For instance, Tip, the wannabe-warlord, has just "acquired" (he is a slaver who doesn't believe in personal freedoms) a heavily pregnant "wife", and is looking forward to the birth. She's present at the rather tense situation/standoff at the site of the crashed satellite, so lots of complications are possible. Blind-blue may be quite intrigued to see he's not the only fertile one around, as well.

If it seems interesting to make Tip more monstrous, I may have him declare at some point how he plans to see "his child" born (although he had nothing to do with its conception!), and then kill it if it doesn't look like him. Or kill it if it's a girl. Something like that, to see how the players react - I get the sense they're all interested in exploring these themes in play.
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Munin on December 27, 2017, 03:08:08 PM
Your final paragraph about using a PC-NPC-PC triangle for this purpose is along the right lines, I think, but I'm not sure exactly what you're describing. Can you explain a little more, or illustrate with an example?
Sure, how about the following:

Our PCs are Diamond (the Chopper) and Bish (the Angel). We know from the Hx round that Bish once stood up to Diamond, gang and all. The questions asked about it at the time have established that Bish was doing some do-gooder shit, and kept Diamond and her gang from killing a group of sick travelers who'd showed up at the hold's gates last summer. We also know that the standoff did not end in violence between Bish and Diamond, (as neither opted for a beatdown), but that's it.

So we throw an NPC into this mix, let's call him Dog-Head. Dog-Head is (now) one of Diamond's more dependable lieutenants, but back then he was just another fucking savage in the pack. So we start a scene with both Diamond and Bish, only Dog-Head's there as an extra. We describe him as sullen and testy and looking obvious daggers at Bish. Maybe he doesn't say anything, maybe he does, that's up to them if they decide to engage with him (Diamond if she says, "what's your problem, asshole?" or Bish if he says, "something I can help you with, Dog-Head?" or whatever). Let the tension simmer and see what they do with it.

But even if they don't (or maybe even if they do), once they part ways, Dog-Head finds a way to corner Bish afterwards, and he's clearly pissed. He says something like, "I don't know what the fuck you have over Diamond, but I haven't forgotten your little episode with those fucking plague-riddled scavs you let in last summer."  <--Here's your chance to ask more about how that situation went down, what did Bish do to convince Diamond to back off? Then maybe put your bloody fingerprints on it: "Jalopy would still be alive if you hadn't brought that shit home to roost." Maybe announce some future badness (both for Bish and for Diamond)? "Diamond might be too weak to put you down, but sooner or later I'm gonna get me some payback. Believe it. In fact, give me one good reason why I shouldn't gut you right here, right now?"

How Bish deals with Dog-Head here (what he says, what he does, how they interact) is going to inform that situation, and is ultimately going to inform the historical situation between Bish and Diamond as well. Similarly, how Diamond deals with Dog-Head threatening Bish is going to add further detail - like who is more important to Diamond, Bish or Dog-Head?

And because the original situation chosen during Hx didn't result in a fight, that probably meant that Diamond had to impose her will on her gang, which might have left some simmering resentments - it certainly has for Dog-Head! - which is in turn going to inform the situation between Diamond and her gang.

Best of all, it encourages the players to talk about the situation, both in and out of character. Everything they say is going to flesh out and reinforce their history.
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Paul T. on December 27, 2017, 04:57:44 PM
Excellent example, thanks. Very clear! (Except for the switch from Domino to Diamond, which threw me for a second, but no biggie.)

In this particular game, we didn't get much crustal-clear Hx like the example you gave, with the exception of the Savvyhead being in debt to the Angel. However, I can use this same logic to extend many of the other Hx options chosen, until we flesh them out a little more and hit paydirt. I like it!

My current musings:

Is it possible that the satellite fell because of something the PCs did (or were involved in)? If so, what might it be?

The most obvious thing to jump out at me: the Savvyhead's mucking about with time and space in his workspace (and now we're back to that juicy Hx incident again). Could that have caused the fall of the satellite somehow?
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Munin on December 27, 2017, 11:14:47 PM
Excellent example, thanks. Very clear! (Except for the switch from Domino to Diamond, which threw me for a second, but no biggie.)
What switch? (he says, having edited his post...)   ;D
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Paul T. on December 28, 2017, 01:37:57 PM
Dear reader,

If you're reading this, you just rolled a 7-9 on "open your brain".
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Ebok on December 30, 2017, 06:19:57 PM
I often use a combination of open your brain answers and love letters to handle "flashback" scenarios. Love letters can come in with built-in questions and bullets to charge the answers, so I tend to prefer this. Other times I just look at the player and ask just after a backloaded prompt (like Munin's example).
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Paul T. on December 31, 2017, 11:14:57 AM
I like the idea of a "backloaded prompt"; it seems like a solid technique.

I also find flashback scenes can really enrich my games, though, and can be more engaging for the players. Some careful framing and cutting has always made it work for me!

I wonder if you two have any thoughts on the scenario or ideas for how I might prep for session two? I'd love to borrow your brains for that purpose.
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Paul T. on January 06, 2018, 01:40:59 PM
I played a (very short) second session of this game, which we treated as a "first session, part two" - the "have a fight" part, perhaps. We will save the "start of session" moves for next time, and that kind of thing; it was very much a "in media res" start, right where we left off.

Overall, the game was fun, but it also felt like a lot of work for me as the MC (I really wish I knew more about the characters and what they're into, and the players aren't always good at giving me material to work with), but they seemed to enjoy it quite a bit.

We got a lot done in under two hours, which I think was not something they're used to (but liked). They're hardcore D&D players and have never played a game like this, before, so lots of stuff is new to them. They love the playbooks and how evocative the rules are.

They keep saying they like the system a lot and comparing it to stuff they don't enjoy in D&D, which is interesting! (The usual DM says he gets annoyed sitting there while players look up their spells in their books and try to figure out what to do, for example, and that doesn't happen in this game.)

So, the game was enjoyable in retrospect, but felt a little bit difficult in the moment for me. I think we didn't establish enough connections from the PCs to all the stuff we brainstormed, so we're doing it on the fly. Apocalypse World doesn't help a ton on that front; I'm really missing having Desires or Keys or Beliefs or some other kind of orienting mechanism to work with. In a regular game, a "slow start" gives you time to establish a deeper sense of what life is like and what the characters care about, but here we're trying to move very quickly into the action, and it's proving a little challenging for me. I have to pull in GMing tricks and techniques from other games, and it's interesting to see what works well in AW and what doesn't.

If you use this setup, really emphasize the importance of creating the characters as apart of the NPCs and relationship web you've all invested in during the brainstorm/creation phase.

I got to use my idea of a flashback scene, after all, and it worked quite well. The Angel used his "healing touch" on a dying NPC, and missed the roll. No one has yet opened their brain to the maelstrom, so I asked him what it's usually like for him. He answered that he experiences reveries, or relives memories of the past, and sometimes gets stuck in them. Well, perfect: I told him he was having a nightmarish trip into his memories of his relationship with the Savvyhead, and we played out their Hx moment. I told the Savvyhead's player to play his character as he liked - either true to the "memories", or in some nightmarish, twisted fashion, and he enjoyed that. I got to introduce a scary ghost-figure who will be fun to bring back.

Afterwards, they said: "Cool! That felt like a TV show or a movie!"

So that was good.

Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Munin on January 07, 2018, 11:50:34 AM
So, the game was enjoyable in retrospect, but felt a little bit difficult in the moment for me. I think we didn't establish enough connections from the PCs to all the stuff we brainstormed, so we're doing it on the fly.
There's another way to do it?

I kid, but only slightly. Especially with new players, they'll never have a "fully fleshed out" character idea, and they'll never have scads of connections to NPCs from the jump. But that stuff's not hard to build up, and the easiest way to do it is to simply ask one (or more) of the players a simple (and provocative!) question or two about every NPC you introduce. One important caveat here is to make the assumption going in that the PC knows the NPC and there's some history there. All you need to do is ask the player some stuff about that history on the fly and build off their answers.

So if you introduce Dremmer the Arms Dealer, say something like, "So if anybody needs guns or bullets in this gods-forsaken hole, they go to Dremmer. In addition to her top-notch inventory, she is known for her crazy eyes and bad attitude, and now she's pounding on your door. What happened between the two of you last time you met? And what does she want now?" This approach is likely to produce instant action or character development or both.

Also, connections to stuff you brainstormed don't actually need to be pre-existing; they can be developed in-play, and in many cases that's actually better because it is active on the part of the players (i.e. they have chosen to engage with it). This is where the important MC skill of observing your players comes in - with what or whom do they choose to interact (e.g. which people and situations do they choose to read)? When their moves present them with choices, which choices do they make and what does that say about how they view the world?

Don't overthink it, and don't feel like you need to tie absolutely everything together from the beginning to "motivate" the PCs. Just present them with engaging NPCs and situations they can't ignore and watch which direction they jump.
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Paul T. on January 07, 2018, 07:06:52 PM
I should perhaps clarify my position here:

Apocalypse World, as written, does a great job (when played by the rules and Principles) at creating an unstable world full of threats and then helping us watch the PCs stumble their way through it and grasp for what's left of humanity, safety, civilization, and beauty.

However, it does so quite slowly.

What I'm trying to do here is a short, focused game which wraps up in two-three sessions. I'm finding that a lot of the "standard" things we do in AW work against that. There's a lot to explore, and most of my tools to "jump ahead" to the focus of the action feel like hammers and nails.

So I've been brainstorming different MC/GM techniques to get things primed more quickly, and this game is a bit of a proving ground for a variety of them.

The game I've played so far would be an absolutely *lovely* beginning to a long-term campaign, with all the right bits, and every scene we play inspires me with some thing I can reincorporate later.

However, some combination of AW's system, my "campaign starter", and my players' reticence (well, perhaps I just haven't figured out how to connect with them yet) hasn't helped us find the crux of this Situation yet, and the natural tendency is just to do the Apocalypse World thing, which is fantastic, but somewhat slow-moving in comparison.

Well, it's not even that it's "slow-moving" - sometimes, AW can speed along like gangbusters - but the lack of clear focus and direction, even for any single PC. I largely blame my scenario for this (perhaps too open-ended), but I'm still trying to figure out which precise MC tools will be most effective here.

We're having a great time playing, but I worry that, two sessions from now, we'll just be starting to get into the meat of the thing (as typically happens in a game of AW) as opposed to being ready to wrap it all up.

Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Munin on January 07, 2018, 11:47:07 PM
Oh, OK, I see the issue more clearly now.

I think presenting the PCs with a "Big Bad" early on would probably help. Give them something that touches on the stuff you brainstormed for the beginning of the session, but whose "countdown" clock is fairly accelerated and whose stages are suitably obvious and dire. That's sort of not how AW is best, but in terms of focusing the scope of the game and engaging your PCs, it certainly works. I often do that for one-shots and convention games, simply because you don't have time to go full-immersion and build from the ground up.
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Paul T. on January 08, 2018, 11:21:50 AM
Oddly enough, a friend suggested much the same thing to me.

I balked a bit at the idea - presenting a Big Bad is just not that exciting to ME, as the MC, so I don't want to go that route. However, some kind of clear opposition might be just the ticket here, no question.

My struggle, I suppose, then, is finding some middle ground between what the game needs in terms of clarity and my own interests as an MC who doesn't want to decide "what the plot is", but, rather, to be surprised by the choices made by the players. Hmmm.
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Munin on January 08, 2018, 04:31:43 PM
I feel you, but given the short-term nature of your parameters, you need something around which to focus. Also, don't think of it as "the plot," because it's not. You're using the stuff you all brainstormed at the beginning, you're just advancing some part of that to the forefront in terms of the Threat you're posing to the players.

There will absolutely be stuff that ends up on the cutting-room floor, but that's true of every good story. Don't sweat it, and better yet, sock some of those cool tidbits away for later (re)use.
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Paul T. on January 09, 2018, 08:04:18 PM
Sounds about right.

Currently, my plan is to just write up each NPC/faction as a threat and then make them menacing/in-your-face enough that the PCs will likely have strong feelings about them. They will have interesting relationships to each other, as well, for a variety of opportunities/options.

I can then feel out the players' interests and focus on the one they seem to gravitate to the most or feel strongest about.

One other issue:

At the end of the last session, a PC sent 5 of the Hocus's followers after the Black Teeth, a small group of mud-covered people (for camouflage) who kidnapped Newton, a star breeder who is currently pregnant, carrying the Hocus's baby (but the baby is promised to Ambergrease).

Sometimes, in situations like these, an obvious dramatic solution comes to mind (basically, an interesting MC move). Here, I'm not sure one does. I'm thinking of writing this up as a Love Letter, to better disclaim responsibility and put it in the players' hands.

How would you write such a letter? How would it be organized?
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Paul T. on January 09, 2018, 08:05:10 PM
(As I was typing that, a dramatic MC move/twist did come to mind. I'll keep quiet for now, though, so I can hear your thoughts and suggestions.)
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Ebok on January 11, 2018, 02:46:00 AM
I wouldn't put that in a letter at all, but that's just me.

If a PC successfully talked 5 NPCs into going to do something. I would ask myself, are these 5 able to do it? (looking at both the mud people and the makeup of the five). I mean, people in the apocalypse aren't automatically raiders, or even all that hard.

So in the case: well, definitely, they can do it. I would say then they do it, but what went wrong? Maybe let the player pick what went horribly wrong in the lover letter, but have them get the girl.

In the case: well, lol, no. They could never pull that off. I might put this in the lover letter, but no options would say they do it! Instead, all options would be able what they didn't do, or how much face or blood they lost trying.

Otherwise (in most cases): really what I would do, is say, hey you talked 5 NPCs into fighting for you? Cool, did you tell them where to find her? If not, then they don't. Oh you did? Great! That sounds like a gang. They're not fighters so we're talking maybe 2 harm (assuming handguns), tiny gang, 0 armor. You're not going with them? Sounds like they're leaderless to me. The mud people are like 15 strong? Mud for armor? Okay, no worries there. They've got some guns too? Hm. Okay. So 2harm, small gang, 0 armor.

Now that we've got that figured, sounds like a seize by force roll to me, cause they're going to be in a battle way over there. So that's 2harm 0armor, your guys, up against 3harm 1armor those guys (after size). Make your roll, after the harm happens your 5-man gang is going to scatter to the winds, hopefully, they get what you wanted, hopefully, they also get her back to you.

So I would probably do it in play with a roll to see what's what. Assuming that it makes sense that the sides fight over her. On a miss, if they choose to seize her anyway, cool okay, one of them gets captured, two die, and the last two, still freaking out, get her back to you (or maybe straight to the Hocus). But she's been shot too and is bleeding everywhere. What do you do?

After the roll you can say how it happened, the results should provide some insight there. That's just me though, maybe you can get an awesome love letter out of that--but really I'd want my love letters to be shaping what's coming at you next, not if something happened at all that you've succeeded already to push into action. In my view, OF COURSE something happens, you just talked those 5 into it. Was that a good idea? Dunno, I guess it depends on what's happening, whose who, etc.
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: bonkydog on January 11, 2018, 11:37:37 AM
Or hey. What if the raid doesn't go off at all?

What if Newton's not a captive anymore?  I mean she was, but she is all round and radiantly pregnant and oh -- she has a brilliant creative mind. Surprise, motherfuckers. The Black Teeth are now her cult.  They're sitting around, listening to her make up resonantly enthralling fairy tales.  The PCs' bag team show up ready to throw down and get sucked into the story instead.  (I mean, these guys are followers.)  Now they're part of her brute squad.  Is small plus tiny still small or does that kick it up to medium? 

I wonder what soft power Scheherazade will do with her newly earned political strength.

Good morning, heroes.  Your little rescue mission never came back.

What do you do?
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Paul T. on January 11, 2018, 04:49:34 PM
bonkydog,

We're thinking along the same lines here!

Ebok,

You're right that, by the book, this should probably be a Seize by Force roll. (I say "probably", because it's happening off-screen, and so other things are possible, too.)

I have a few issues with that:

It's simultaneously too much and too little player control for my tastes.

Why too much? As we've discussed recently, the new version of Seize by Force is very... deterministic. Assuming the player is committed to getting Newton back, the only thing the roll will determine is how much harm is dealt. Those aren't terrible interesting variables for me.

Choosing getting her back over the lives of those other followers? That could be interesting, but I'm not sure whether it will be or not (it's a new game, after all), and it really depends on the stats I assign the gangs. Some ratios of harm/armor will create that as an interesting choice, and others will not. (For instance, the difference between "they're nearly all dead" and "they're almost all dead", in some scenarios.)

The character's isn't in a position to be making this choice narratively, and I want the actions of the previous session to have consequences (it's not the Hocus who sent these men, but her friend). Putting her in charge means she feels the consequences less. Having the other PC roll and choose would be more interesting, but is starting to distort the rules quite a bit at that point!

That brings me to the final point: since Seize by Force is mostly about the exchange of harm, and I haven't already decided on the Black Teeth's numbers (I suppose it depends who's waiting on the other side of the river!), it's very hard for me to disclaim responsibility. In assigning those stats, I will largely be deciding the outcome, instead of leaving it to the dice.

Now, why too little?

It comes down to a die roll and deciding how gets hurt how much (and possibly whether Newton is worth it). That affects one player.

If I turn it into a love letter, instead, I can give everyone input and create some other interesting possibilities.

For example, I can say, "Hey, is it true that you've been stealing weapons from Tip's compound and selling them? If so, surely the followers got some of them. Give the Hocus +1 to her roll. However, in that case you can't be too sure who else got their hands on a few of the guns, now, can you?"

Now I can tie the other two players into the action and create decision points for them. In the above example, I've offered the player the chance to create conflict with an NPC (Tip) and to set up some harder moves from me (stolen weapons). That's more exciting to me than just having the Hocus decide whether she wants the Black Teeth to lose one or two people in a fight or three or four.

Still, your answer feels like the correct one, going "by the book". I'll have to think on this some more.
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Ebok on January 11, 2018, 11:16:26 PM
Honestly, Seize by force is what you make of it. Harm can mean all sorts of narrative things too. Especially when that harm is happening off-scene like this. Sure, the play might always choose, they certainly grab her. In fact, that's not so unreasonable, even if it was a love letter, most of my love letters would also give the player a chance to say, they grab her too.

So we already determined, that if they couldn't do it, then this roll does happen. It only happens IF there is a chance that they could. I might give them a penality of -1 or -2 on the hard roll, depending on how good the chosen bunch of random followers turned into a crappy gang would fight together. I'd also certainly use the hard of the character that talked them into it for the roll.

Maybe this is only because of my hack, however. But:
10+ options:
  take definite hold: They most certainly grabbed the girl, too!
  suffer less harm: Keeps "Boxtop" alive, the Hocus's favorite, otherwise Buhbye Boxtop. I assume if the NPC's were on scene and talked into doing something, we as the players might care about one of them more than the others... I'd use this to decide if our favorite gets back at all. You also suggested that it wasn't the Hocus that talked the followers into doing this, is the Hocus really okay with it? If not, I'd push there hard.
  deal more harm: They even managed to kill one of the BlackTeeth! Pissing them off mightly, and making it harder for them to recover to the same level of dangerous. This might make the resulting snowball less threatening.
  frighten, dismay, impress: The BlackTeeth won't come back at the Followers in the night, to their homes, to their families, at their soft underbellies. Instead, they'll be more cautious in their approach, coming straight to the players with demands. If the player picked deal more harm, this violence here will be deadly. If the gang didn't deal additional harm, then they went to use their hostages to demand from the people that loved/needed them, terrifying the shit out of them, maybe burning something along the way. This prompts an even more drastic response to the always statement.

  always: the harm being inflicted here is substantial to that group of 5. 2 or 3 is not a small chunk. What happens when they're caught? What value did they bring to the community that's now gone? When the BlackTeeth use them as hostages... who might care? If they really were nameless and expendable, I'd change that immediately by bringing in those NPC's who cared about them in some way, or who relied on them to survive. I'd bring them right up in the Hocus's face in an unignorably pleading or angry sort of way. I'd probably, as I always do when people choose to inflict extra harm, add casualties to the conflict that maybe aren't always moral. Like the followers ended up killing some of the kids there too, or wives, or the favorite son of the gang, or bystanders got shot. Unled brute Harm has been dealt Dealt.

7-9 options: (same as above but, the NPCs get to pick one if the player doesn't cancel it out)
  NPC's choices...
  frighten, dismay, impress: The Followers that went come back Freaking out, with a capital F. They're literally balls to the walls terrified. They wish they had never done this, they might even act out against those that talked them into it. Of those that returned, they're not the same. I'd go as far to say I'd change their threat type, maybe already delivering some additional trauma in a counter attack where the NPC's were weak (home, family, etc). Maybe even have one or both of them leave the cult entirely, or demand recompense, depending on the setup. One thing's for sure, those guys will never do something like that again.
  deal more harm: Okay 4 harm? If the player lets this happen, every single one of them has been at least shot or stabbed. One of the two of them who would have made it back died out there instead. This should snowball, I'd certainly snowball part of that into a bleeding (shot or stabbed) pregnant girl.
  suffer less harm: Okay, so the BlackTeeth didn't even get hurt. I'd only consider this if the player didn't select deal more harm, because then I've got a full-health gang coming back at them, or chasing them on their heels. I might go as far to say, that when they show up with the girl, they show up still in the middle of that battle, they've just brought it all the way here to the PCs, except they brought it on them in a place that isn't good for the PCs. Maybe at night, maybe sideways, maybe through or into something else that shouldn't get all shot to hell. Dunno.
  take definite hold: If the player didn't choose to take the girl, this would be they barricade themselves up tightly with her now. Maybe they make her theirs, or as was mentioned before, she makes them hers--but turns out that she didn't really want to get "kidnapped" back to the Hocus anyway. If the player did choose to definitely grab the girl, the NPC's could counter that neither group has her, she got lost somewhere in between with all the fighting and when the followers come running up screaming to the PCs for help... Now she's not in anyone's hands is even MORE dangerous. Now the story snowballs sideways because she's far more likely to get kidnapped by something worse out there alone, and far more likely to get shot by competing interests, fighting over her on whatever's been turned into the battlefield. This is also true if neither side picked to definitely grab the girl.

On a Miss: (same as above, but worse)
Okay so in my hack, the NPC's now get 3 choices (or 2 if the Blackteeth arent really all that), and the player gets 1. So that always makes the situation worse.


No matter what: We solved something with violence, and it was done off-scene with brutes. That means there is a fucking mess on our hands. That is snowballing for sure, and this snowball I'd probably have moved to either immediately on the scene, or into a love letter for partial resolution. The followers that started the fight will always suffer enough harm to break, so they're not helpful at all in what comes next. What comes next is most certainly a violent or hostile response of some kind. The battle isn't over, there is just an intermission.

Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Ebok on January 11, 2018, 11:28:10 PM
Of course, just starting the next session with, Okay she's now in charge of that gang like some weird goddess, and they've taken all 5 of those followers hostage. Is also pretty cool.

The above example isn't to say, DO IT THIS WAY, but simply to show that Seize by force, especially when nebulously defined in size, location, and scope in the off-scene... can be very potent narratively. It is only just an exchange of harm if we say it is. My hack helps, I think, give actual tension to this kind of roll though, because without it we lose most of the dangerous results.
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Paul T. on January 11, 2018, 11:36:52 PM
Excellent points, both!
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Ebok on January 11, 2018, 11:37:39 PM
A quick way to show LOCATION based tension:
You tell the player, okay, so the gang doesn't find the BlackTeeth hiding out there in their muck camps or whatever, but instead tracked them down to some other holding. This holding probably should not be buddy buddy with the players, but it's best if we'd heard about them before. Or you just introduce a new one if there's room for that in your fiction. The unled brutes don't think too hard about it, and start a battle in the middle of the market over the girl. The options outlined above, might still apply, but the always statement afterward could change too:

The hardholders favorite X (son, daughter, arms-dealer, drug-dealer, etc) was in the market that day, and died out there with a gunshot to the face. Your guys got back with the girl (if they picked that option), but the hard holder knows where they came from. Because someone else in the bloody market that day recognized them.. or maybe the BlackTeeth were hit the guards hard there, and the hostages that would have been their's are now this guy's. They flipped at the first sign of pain, barter, or whatever else. Now the Blackteeth have basically been wasted, there might be a straggler mutant/cannibal threat surviving out there somewhere, but we've changed that into a different kind of foe. In this case, I would probably not be as hard when it comes to injuries on the people that make it back. Because the focus won't be small scale violence, but the new looming intimation.

If neither side ended up with the girl, then the hardholder did by default. Now maybe he wants a second wife out all this.
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Paul T. on January 12, 2018, 03:51:25 PM
I really like that, too, Ebok. Excellent!

Unfortunately, I don't have a ready-to-go location which would be appropriate, but I could always have a group travel through the area, set up temporary camp, be conducting business or barter, or something similar.

The last few answers showcase nicely why I was hesitant to simply use Seize by Force (or some other form of clear resolution), because what I really want is for this to develop and grow more complex/involved.

The first line of thought (which I also had) was to develop/complicate the girl's deal. This second one here, instead, keeps the girl's deal simple, but starts building a larger set of relationships/concerns from this single event.

Perhaps there is even something of a good Principle in the idea that a good way to deal with uncertain action absent PC presence is to complicate, develop, or spin out. I'll have to think on that one for a bit, too.
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Ebok on January 12, 2018, 06:35:51 PM
I think it all comes down to the tempo. If you have a game that isn't interesting enough, then spin out of control and crash into something else, involve MORE moving parts with urgency. If you have a game that is wildly interesting and this is something happening on the side, resolve it. If it's instead somewhere in the middle, and this is an action you wanna follow, set it up to snowball.

Love Letters for me are about resolution. They step in and make things happen and resolve it right there to be good for you or not. By resolution, I don't mean it's done either. I mean it has settled for a perilous moment, where you can look away and at something else. It's off-screen after all.

Seize by force however only resolves the scope you set it on. Followers + DreadTeeth fight it out over the girl, maybe it was an ambush, maybe it was a sneaking at them in the middle of the night, maybe a straight challenge. The only part of this set up to be resolved is where the girl might be, the rage of the Dread Teeth, and the condition of the broken follower gang. It does not resolve the position or momentum of the INCOMING snowball.


FOOD FOR THOUGHT
You can also write a custom move for the event too. Which might be a love letter.... or a start of the session type of roll. I'd just flavor the results of the same seize by force myself.

When Noodle, Boxtop, Teddybear, Tablespoon, and Mittens take on the more numerous and dangerous DreadTeeth for you, roll+Hard.
On a 10+: choose 3
7-9: you choose 2 the MC chooses a complication.
Miss: you choose 1 the MC chooses 3 complications.
Either way: Noodle got shot several times in the face, and Tablespoon got bloodied bad and caught, and Tommy's Bar (and those lurking around it) where the DreadTeeth were at got all shot to hell.
This means that there is always some complications. How bad this should be is up to the pacing and the fiction I think. Anyone that cares about these NPCs will be upset. Anyone that could be threatened with a hostage, should be. The environment of the fight, whether in a bar like I said, or somewhere else, can easily involve other parties. Other parties that might have watched Mitten's shoot someone important, or otherwise inspire serious problems. I once had an important diplomat passing by an exchange, someone everyone knew was doing something cool/important/good. Then described them bleeding out on the road because of an unrelated squabble using firearms.

• Teddybear wasn't injured too bad and Boxtop didn't get killed in the escape.
• Mittens actually rescued the girl from the Dread Teeth while all this fighting was happening, otherwise, the girl resisted and something strange is going on.
• The Dread Teeth's leader took a bullet to the chest, but his widow is enraged.
• The Dread Teeth were taken by surprise, and need time to regroup, otherwise, they're coming at you hard, now, or barricading themselves in if they've still got the girl.
• Tell the MC to pick one less complication.

complications
• The survivors are emotional, shellshocked, and forever changed.
• The Dread Teeth didn't suffer any other injuries so they're all ready for a fight, otherwise, they've got some injuries.
• The Dread Teeth caught Teddybear too and injured Mittens pretty bad.
• Mittens lost track of the girl somewhere in between there and here, and stumbles into you all panicked like.


---

The reason I would consider this roll over just narrating the girl took it over... is that you've already got a PC that convinced 5 brutes to violently recover her. Unless they're smarter then most, I'd probably say they're going to make a mess now, and they're outnumbered so you can be sure some of them are gonna die. Just how bad was convincing them to do that? Roll to find out.

This is Seize by Force. We just list the repercussions of the roll in a less opaque way.
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Paul T. on January 12, 2018, 07:52:39 PM
Ebok,

Some good insights there. I agree.

As for your "custom move", I like it. That's what I would call a "love letter", and it's at least somewhat similar to what I had in mind (thought I like some of the specifics you came up with - they're meaningfully different from my own ideas).

As for my own thinking, the reason I keep coming back to the girl is because she's possibly the most interesting NPC we've got going so far:

* She's a breeder - one of the Hocus's followers - and she's carrying a child. It's her *last* child, the Hocus has declared. What are her own feelings about that?
* The child is promised to Ambergrease, another important NPC who's pivotal to the scenario/situation/place, who can't have her own children. How does she feel about all this?
* The child's father... is the Hocus himself. How does HE feel about her, and the baby?

No matter how this pans out, I'd like to see it make some headway towards developing these things.

(I'm really enjoying digging into this, by the way: it's kind of like doing prep with a bunch of helpers. In the process I'm hearing new things but also thinking of stuff I wouldn't have without the excuse to post about it online. Fascinating!)
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Ebok on January 13, 2018, 11:42:29 AM
She sounds like she's been introduced. Although, I cannot help but notice that your bullets for her don't list another PC. I have 4 rough stages of character development.

StageOne: Imagine them on the scene. (Ideas)
This has to happen for anything to ever involve an NPC. Sometimes you can do this over time, name them first and drop them in somewhere later, but both are part of stage one. NPC's at stage one are Ideas.

Name them.) There are three guys sitting on stools in the bar: Thumper, Mix, & Freddy.

Place them.)
Thumper is a big balding laborer drowning in cheap booze.
Mix is a skinny weasel little fuck, counting through his bag of loot with a shotgun on the bartop.
Freddy is a manly man, with a glorious pitch black lumberjack beard. He is on the stool in front of his own bar, bored out of his mind.

StageTwo: Introduce them. (Pawns)
This happens when 1 of the PCs has a connection to an NPC. This can happen through the player's input, or by player choice. The MC can also prompt a relationship, but it's only really introduced when the PC picks up and adds to it. You'll know when a PC has been introduced for real. And you are right, like with this Girl-- they are someone you want to use again, but. You first and primary goal should be making that NPC move to stage 3. Pawns are just pieces to move around the narrative, they're color, distractions, hooks, and reactions.

So lets say when the [PC] Gunlugger walks into the bar, we do something like:
Hey [PC], you know all three of these guys. One of them has been your friend forever, you've destroyed things another one cares about, and the one is absolutely terrified of you from that time you shot up his gang. But I forget, which is which?

Freddy turns around and groans, "[PC] I told you never to come back here. I'm not cleaning up any more of your fucking corpses!". Ignoring him... Mix sees the Gunlugger and gives him a big grin, "Heyo Buddy! Get over here, I've got some really cool stuff to show you." The drunkard turns, looks towards the [PC] in horror and screaming... he bolts out the back of the bar immediately, stiffing Freddy. [PC] flicks off Freddy as he walks over the Mix to see the cool loot. (they start talking) Freddy cocks the bar's shotgun and aims it at the [PC] "I said get the fuck out.". Mix chuckles, "Alright alright buddy, let's go someplace else" But... What do the [PC] do?

Basically, We have some color now, and the player picked who was who, so now they've had a say in these people's history with them. Maybe this is done with opened ended or leading questions, maybe just picked from the list. Often times it'll happen purely by player action when they take the initiative to interact with someone new and then do something that has consequences for that person.

StageThree: The Triangle. (Characters)
At this stage, you or one of your players has imagined the NPC, and you've introduced them on the scene to at least 2 PCs. Now I don't mean at the same time, If both PC's have the same relationship with the NPC then this doesn't count. The NPC needs to be shown to both PC's at a different angle.

Let's say Mix is a Character. Because the Savvyhead [PC] has also had him on the scene. We learned when we were talking to the [PC], that Mix is some sort of free-wheeling hard drug dealer, not a nice guy. So we start a scene with the [PC] hearing a scream from just outside his workshop, he grabs a claw hammer off a tabletop and rushes out to find Mix beating down some woman just around the corner. Mix is snarling, "You Traitorous little bitch!" Kicking her in the ribs, and again, and again. She's gasping for breath, what does [PC] do?

Assuming the Savvyhead played the hero and did something to stop what he was seeing. Maybe he threatened Mix with the clawhammer, and Mix thought better of it. Maybe he threatened Mix with a claw hammer, and Mix kicked the shit out of him too. So long as we have some tension, it's all good.

Now, Mix is a character. What happens to him might piss off his best friend the Gunlugger. However, the Savvyhead might not tolerant this fucker anywhere near him.  Sweet! Characterization achieved. Now when this guy moves around, more then one person is watching. This is where you want to get as many NPC's as you can.

StageFour: Develope them. (Story)
You will find that things will happen to your characters over time, and their relationships they've established with the PC will begin to change. When they changed enough that the person you (and everyone else) thought they were at the start, isn't really who they are now. You've hit this point.

(The following example is from one of my games, this was not the focus of the game. It took place now and then over the course of everything else)

I once imagined an NPC for a [PC] Hardholder, Dallia, his second in command, as being hopelessly in love with him, and that translated into going above and beyond in her job. Dallia, well, she had met and enforced the "law" on all the other PCs in her own way, with varying degrees of success. She was even recommending to the Hardholder that one of them be "dealt with". She was a character now. Everyone knew her and had an opinion.

However, the PC Hardholder didn't notice her affections, or didn't take the time to care, or just decided not to act on it, and got involved in countless other characters. One of those flings was particularly bad, flaunting him in front of Dallia on purpose. So Dallia uncharacteristically retired to get smashed at the bar, where another PC lived (the one she hated the most and had recommended the [PC]Hardholder get rid of, ironically). She sort of asked for advice, without saying exactly what the problem was, and the other PC told her to take what she wanted and not let anyone stand in her way. (He was that type of PC) He didn't know what she would do next.

So the drunk and pissed off version of Dallia decides he's right. She pushed her way out to the bar, slamming into one of the other [PCs] as they entered. That one was the squirrelly curious type, so he snuck after her spying. This set up everything, honestly. With a witness, this kept snowballing. Anyway, Dallia went and found MsFling, and butchered her in the bedroom, taking for herself a valuable neckless the [PC]Hardholder gave to her as a gift. The Witness freaked out, but Dallia caught him too, and dragged him into her lies. They framed someone else (by accident mostly, they just pushed blame and it fell squarely on someone else), someone another PC cared about (was actually in bed with) and the Hardholder went to war. The Other PC and the Hardholder spun out of control and became enemies.

Meanwhile Dallia was struggling to do her job, her performance in the pits. So the [PC]Hardholder replaced her with someone else, and told her to take a break (which is not what she needed). Then the [PC]Hardholder ended up in another relationship (marriage), this one a political arrangement between powerful Holdings. Dallia was spinning out, and went to accuse the PC[Gunlugger] that talked her into this. Instead of hurting him, he gave her someplace to be.

Over the next few sessions, she became more and more. The Brainer at war with the Hardholder got into her head and saw things about the past. The PC[Gunlugger] gave her a home, showed her what love was, and prepared her to stand on her own feet. The Witness, wary as ever, only started to come around, but he had a performing troop of actors, and showed her a place where Death wasn't the goal.

By the End of the game, she was a fucking badass NPC. She had loved, murdered, been broken, and mended. The thing with the gunlugger wasn't to be kept, it was just helping hand. During credits she did what she always wanted to do, she went to go find out what was beyond the horizon.

It was a very powerful little story. But that's when you know you've got a character in stage4.


------------------------

This is somewhat off-topic, I know.

The point was to showcase how I approach development. When you've got bunches of triangles all strung together, you can push on one and they slam into the others. The entire network bends and pulls like a web someone stuck their finger into. It becomes easy to get complicated realistic reactions without having to do much work. That's how I run a game anyway.

What I didn't show here, is all of the other triangles that made this possible. So what I recommend for you to do with your love letter, is not to try to answer your stakes on that Girl within love letters. But instead, since this Girl sits at the center of a web already attached to a network of NPCs... and they're all ready to do something depending on what happens. I would reinforce those stakes by drawing triangles between the various sides to your players. Get them involved. Have Ambergrease come around with a big fucking gang to see how she is doing, make sure the Hocus knows that this guy might shoot them all if he feels betrayed, or if he can't trust the Hocus. Now the Hocus has to decide whether or not to admit the kidnapping to him, or if he's got to cover it up. Tensions! Have the one that talked the 5 into going to fetch her be involved, or maybe have to go after the 5 and help them, or pull them a different way.

You might want to draw some triangles to the Dread Teeth too, maybe let one of them get found out somewhere the others arent, some teen or something. Someone that isn't immediately ruthless, probably more vulnerable. Let a PC interact with them, show the moral side of them. Make them human by making getting them to sort of like each other. Maybe talk about people in the gang, speak highly of them, the actually good things they've done for the kid. Enforce what threat they are, but make sure that another side is seen before the funs go off and people start dying.

Now you've got fertile ground for anything to happen.

Until you've got triangles with someone, developing them is just an arbitruary decision. It doesnt really count. Do it for sure, if you need to, but it's best when someone is there to witness or better yet, trigger the WHY. I guess.... The real reason I wouldnt use my example as a love letter, is that I would want to set up all the other scenes before resolving it. Skipping to that makes it impossible to use as a source of narrative tension.
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Ebok on January 13, 2018, 12:16:58 PM
See I just consider that a custom move. It's me disclaiming the stakes of the Seize By Force on paper rather then telling them. A LoveLetter, in my opinion, is to enable something the character has been trying to do but hasn't had the time to pull off. I also use them to pass time and let the PC's tell me what happened during that or to cover events like traveling a great distance. The last use of my love letters is like, to introduce new things-- or inject depth (introduction) into an NPC (idea).

Here are some examples from my last games:
The players had 3 weeks to kill, partly to recover, partly because they had mostly split up to do their own things, and I didnt want them to spend all session taking turns, I wanted to be able to get them all together.

Brogan
The wasteland fires have been growing closer to the flammable mucklands and the twisted have not been this aggressive for a decade or more. Brogan lives in the middle of these dangers, and his hunts reveal things to him that otherwise would not be seen at all. Roll+Weird.
On a 10+ choose 3, 7-9 choose 2, and on a miss choose 1.
– Silently deter a twisted incursion into the mucker territory. (otherwise heavy casualties)
– Track the twisted to their dwelling, ask me what you saw there.
– The oceans bring strong rains and the fires are extinguished before reaching the mucklands. (otherwise it burns)
– Find a patch of rare herbs and flowers, choose whether to harvest or let nature keep them. (+2 barter or +1 experience)

Castor (he picked a life support system with his level.. because he was almost dead)
After you offered her employment, June shared her secret with you. The caravan from Tarrytown was safeguarding a source of old-world healing (regenerative-crystal), and she held on to it during the raid. She believes it's the only reason she survived the collapse. Adding this tech to your workspace allowed you to construct your life-support systems. The initial surge provided an unexpected boon. You recover some harm, roll+Sharp. On a 10+, 3-harm. On a 7-9, 2-harm. On a miss, 1-harm.

Cardinal
Your interactions with both the Sader family and the Muckers have been trying of late. Mostly over accusations that Holverson's actions have been buoyed by you, and that this lawlessness cannot continue. However, this tension has provided you opportunities with Bismark, the Scavvies, and the Fishmongers, and you've spent that last few weeks peddling that influence. Choose one:
– The Fishmongers have opened their doors to you and your words. +5 followers. They provide you with a sea salt church in the form of a huge shipwreck beached on coral just off the docks. In addition, when you have a surplus, you can charter their ships without cost to the nearby islands.
– The Bismark have publically declared that you and yours are under their protection. Bismark's daughter Otto and four others join your flock. They provide you a church in the form of an old stonework building near the output of the water purification facilities. You have a standing (3-barter) gig with them as a ceremonist to bless the water.
– The scavvies don't do loud gestures, its more quiet rooms, and communal secrets. You gain +5 followers and have been invited into their circles and can join their meetings. Whenever you want to know whats up, head here and ask around. Your words are worth 1-barter for the move.

Holverson (she caused battles to open her brain, so she could learn about weird things, a lot.)
You've been fighting and knocking heads like a crazy person of late, and it seems it might be paying off. In the middle of a violent scuffle, you find an opportunity. Roll+Hard like you opened your brain. On a Hit you know what the mark is. On a 10+ you learn while your body forcefully purifies itself. On a miss, OH MY GOD it itches, take a -1 forward.
Also, you've got a protection gig worth 3-barter with whatever group Cardinal chooses.
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Paul T. on January 16, 2018, 12:42:53 PM
Ebok,

I don't see anything about the description of "love letters" in the AW book to indicate that there's any kind of clear line between "custom moves" and "love letters", although I can see how you might draw a bit of a distinction, as you do in your post.

My own "love letters" tend to position PCs relative to threats and opportunities, or tease out what kind of thing they're more or less interested in. It's a more fun way of asking, "hey, are you more interested in capturing one of their spies or dealing with trouble back home?"

Introducing new material is also a good thing to do. My own love letters for this mini-campaign did some of that, although they didn't go as smoothly as I had hoped due to a couple of things we should have done differently (as I wrote in my original post).

Your post above on NPCs, however, is really solid, I think: a wonderful bit of "AW MCing theory" I'll definitely be keeping under my belt. Your stages make a lot of sense to me, and they put the focus on the right aspects of the NPCs and how to use them to tell stories.

In my case, "Newton" is still at Stage One (we haven't even seen her on stage yet, although she was invented by one of the PCs - the Hocus - so we know one of her connections already), and I'm looking at taking her to Stage Two, in terms of your framework here.

I had hoped to jump directly to Stage Three, I suppose, by creating a situation where another PC (the Savvyhead) was going to have to deal with her, establishing some kind of relationship. Unfortunately, the PC chose to delegate this business to some NPCs, who are now running off after her. Hence my need to think about how to handle a rather important situation/scene "offscreen".

Do you have any specific ideas on how to develop her further along the lines of your framework in a short timeframe? She's geographically separated from the PCs (being abducted, currently, and across a river which isn't easily crossed), so framing them into a scene together isn't entirely obvious here. A custom move, love letter, or clever MC move seems more appropriate here.
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Ebok on January 16, 2018, 09:16:21 PM
I wasn't saying this is the only way to use Love Letters, just that I've found it works out pretty consistently.

As for Newton. I mean, she's just an idea right now. My first reaction would be that the strings attached to her with the other factions are more important than she is at the moment, and by bringing focus on them you point to their strings to her and thus create more player interest. In the end, it's the players that elevate NPCs through these stages. Right now, what makes her interesting has nothing to do with her, but her position. So my honest suggestion is to make that position more interesting by bringing the players into that drama.

If you don't want to do this, and you want to bring them into contact with her immediately, then my suggestion would be to bring her back to the players in such a way that forces hard decisions. Make them choose what to do, what to lose, or what to get. Since the player delegated when it could've been him, that, in the vein of AW, is ripe for ALL KINDS of shit to go wrong.

What I wonder about is if she wasn't stolen away from someone she loves--someone with a less then favorable opinion of our Hocus sullying her, or his deal to sell her. So if I brought her back, I might do it by force, with her in tears, and the surviving one or two of the NPCs being all like, hey--boss, I don't think those folk is giving up. Then let the players decide what to do.

Still, though, it depends on your fiction, your cult, I don't know these things. But I can say that you should make the most of anything interesting you got on screen--just don't overestimate the importance of someone st stage 1. The stages represent player involvement after all, and no involvement often means no attachment to what happens.

Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Paul T. on January 16, 2018, 11:20:54 PM
Ebok,

I found that last post of your harder to follow, but if I understand correctly, it sounds like we're talking about the same things. I like your suggestion of tying her situation in with another faction/Front/PC/NPC/someone, to complicate the situation.

If you meant something else by "my honest suggestion is to make that position more interesting by bringing the players into that drama", then let me know!
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Ebok on January 17, 2018, 01:37:00 AM
Yup.
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Paul T. on January 17, 2018, 04:48:05 PM
Groovy! Thanks.
Title: Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
Post by: Paul T. on January 24, 2018, 06:05:41 PM
An update:

I've uploaded a new version of the Starter today. It has some more tips/advice and directions, based on my play experience with it, and an additional Love Letter.

I'm less sure about this particular, new Love Letter, and I'd love to hear some thoughts on it.

The good news is that, with four Letters, I feel much more comfortable saying that you don't need all of them in play, nor do all the players need one. (And, as you'll see, I've added some instructions to that effect.)