Barf Forth Apocalyptica

barf forth apocalyptica => Apocalypse World => Topic started by: lumpley on May 13, 2015, 04:33:21 PM

Title: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: lumpley on May 13, 2015, 04:33:21 PM
Hello!

So the reason we've been out of print all year is because we've been gearing up for a 2nd Edition.

More to come.

-Vincent
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: Daniele Di Rubbo on May 13, 2015, 07:25:21 PM
Wow! I can’t wait to know more of it! ;)
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: sponng on May 15, 2015, 09:28:59 PM
That is a darn tootin' good reason.

May your work vomit forth with glory. :)
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: lumpley on May 17, 2015, 11:00:47 AM
I've been spilling out some previews at my Patreon: http://lumpley.com/index.php/window/installment/8

-Vincent
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: Ebok on May 21, 2015, 11:50:31 PM
Is this a second wave of the same book, or a different and reworked version of the original book?
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: lumpley on May 22, 2015, 06:14:02 AM
We're designing a new battle system, changing some things about Hx, barter, and harm, changing the mix of playbooks, and reorganizing the book. None of the changes are all that big by themselves, but they add up to a new edition.

-Vincent
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: Ebok on May 23, 2015, 03:37:15 AM
Pretty cool stuff.
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: fnord3125 on May 24, 2015, 01:04:49 AM
Turns out the temptation I needed to finally back someone's Patreon was sneak peeks at AW stuff...
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: Dyp100 on May 24, 2015, 08:36:33 PM
Exicted to see how the new combat system works, since I was one of those people who struggled with figuring first edition out.

Shame I'm not part of your patron, but I can't wait to see it! Gonna have to pull together a group to playtest it, if you're gonna post a ruleset in the future.
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: Abhi5 on May 29, 2015, 11:26:30 AM
Woah! That is a very good news. Due to some economic issues, I was waiting to purchase the book later. Now, there is a 2nd edition coming and I have the money almost ready. Can you tell us when you plan on releasing this?
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: lumpley on May 29, 2015, 11:30:29 AM
We're shooting for mid-autumn but you never know.

-Vincent
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: Abhi5 on May 29, 2015, 10:49:58 PM
Awesome! Will there be a kickstarter or a normal release? If it is going to be a normal release, will there be an option to pre-order before?
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: kobold on June 08, 2015, 10:55:25 PM
I backed the Paetron, but do not know how to access the content. Its asking for a handle and password. Where do I get a handle and password?
Thanks
Andy
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: Gavinwulf on June 09, 2015, 02:00:16 AM
I backed the Paetron, but do not know how to access the content. Its asking for a handle and password. Where do I get a handle and password?
Thanks
Andy

Same with me, but I didn't want to complain. Throwing a buck Vincent's way is always good right?
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: Ell975 on June 09, 2015, 07:11:25 AM
Vincent should be sending login details to you when he gets around to it, problem is it isn't automated so if he's busy there'll be a delay until he's free. If its been a day or two I'd probably keep waiting. But if you've been waiting longer then maybe it got lost, so you might want to contact him about resending.
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: Natalie on June 11, 2015, 04:14:36 PM
I started a new campaign the other day, and we're now two sessions in, using the new edition rules. They're pretty cool.
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: nomadzophiel on June 17, 2015, 02:14:47 AM
If you're going for Autumn, you might want to consider having a release party at the biggest Post-apocalyptic event in the country.
http://wastelandweekend.com/
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: theletterv on June 21, 2015, 06:10:31 PM
Hi there, new to the forum.

Is there a place to pre-order 2nd edition? Or is it too far out for that?

Also, how is it that you're able to preview the PDF already?  I saw the reference to the Patron account, but am not familiar with that website/program.

Sign up, donate, and get access to writing?  That sum it up?

Thanks for an awesome RPG.  We love it.
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: Ell975 on June 21, 2015, 07:29:52 PM
No, it still seems to be a work in progress, so no pre-ordering yet.

As for Patreon, you sign up to pay x amount of money to Vincent every time he releases one of his unfinished games, in exchange you get access to them all. I think the minimum is $1 per instalment. For Vincent's stuff, $1 per is definitely worth it.

Here's the link to the Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/lumpley?ty=h)
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: Dandyetical on June 27, 2015, 12:53:13 AM
What's going to happen to Playbooks like the Faceless?
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: lumpley on June 27, 2015, 09:19:10 AM
Some of them I'll update, some of them I'll cannibalize for parts, some of them I'll leave behind!

-Vincent
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: Ebok on June 28, 2015, 10:22:39 AM
Will there be a beta test / playtest period for AW2ndEd, or is that something for the patreon top end supporters?
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: lumpley on June 30, 2015, 01:42:48 PM
Few if any of the changes we're making will need much testing. They're based on the past 5 years of play, so they're basically all pre-tested. If we decide to run a formal external playtest, it'll be short and minutely targeted.

But if we do, it won't just be for my patrons, no. I'll put out a call.

-Vincent

Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: korik1 on July 09, 2015, 09:21:03 PM
I have two questions about the new edition (which I am excited for).
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: lumpley on July 10, 2015, 03:11:17 PM
1. We'll see.

2. I expect most of them to be mostly compatible, but any of them might not be. We aren't prioritizing it.

Thanks!

-Vincent
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: sully the raptor on July 18, 2015, 11:16:04 AM
I think my brain might melt out of sheer excitement. I looked over everything available from the patreon. I have thoughts, but since I am too cheap to voice them in the proper forum and am just doing the $1 pledge, I will keep them to myself.
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: ArchonGamer on July 29, 2015, 04:14:28 PM
I really, really hope AW 2nd is more like Dungeon World it is just a much better layout of a system with better basic moves, etc.
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: silva on July 29, 2015, 10:06:36 PM
I couldnt disagree more. Dungeon World and Apocalypse World are different beasts, and feeding rules from one into the other doesnt make sense.

IMHO, of course.
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: Munin on July 29, 2015, 10:07:36 PM
I actually agree with silva in terms of the content, though I do think there could be improvements in the layout.
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: Dandyetical on July 29, 2015, 10:20:27 PM
Apart from the confusion with Go Aggro vs. Seize By Force, I don't think there's any problem with AW's basic moves. And I think that Vince's done a lot of work shoring up particular issue.

There's some stuff that I'd like to see from DW in AW, but that's more personal preference stuff that suits my tastes and wouldn't really make a better AW.
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: lumpley on July 29, 2015, 11:08:00 PM
Abandon hope! There will be no more Dungeon World in AW2E than there is in AW1E.

-Vincent
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: Dandyetical on July 30, 2015, 01:24:18 AM
All I really want is Faceless 2e.
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: jimmeu on July 30, 2015, 12:26:06 PM
I really, really hope AW 2nd is more like Dungeon World it is just a much better layout of a system with better basic moves, etc.
Oh my god, no !
Abandon hope! There will be no more Dungeon World in AW2E than there is in AW1E.

-Vincent
Sounds good.
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: ArchonGamer on July 30, 2015, 06:57:20 PM
Apart from the confusion with Go Aggro vs. Seize By Force, I don't think there's any problem with AW's basic moves. And I think that Vince's done a lot of work shoring up particular issue.

There's some stuff that I'd like to see from DW in AW, but that's more personal preference stuff that suits my tastes and wouldn't really make a better AW.
that confusion using same move for range and melee, DW has Defend move, defy danger, just a little bit cleaner system than AW. I also really like and prefer that DW can use any attribute for a one depending on the action/fiction. You are Defying Danger by leaping behind cover Roll+Dex, you are Defying Danger by flipping over a desk Roll+Str. Maybe they can fix my concerns with just some much better explanations and examples.

Abandon hope! There will be no more Dungeon World in AW2E than there is in AW1E.

-Vincent
then I hope you do a much better job of explaining moves and giving much better examples. DW is just a cleaner system because of the ability to apply different attributes to the same move based on the fiction and it just has much cleaner moves that make a lot more sense.
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: Maleficum on July 30, 2015, 07:27:17 PM
Sounds good! As soon as John "Carpenter" Harper explained when you seize by force it became the best and clearest versitile moves there is.


What I would like to see is more custom moves, and thusly more inspiration to be able to make them quicker (i.e. steal them for campaign). Cool tricks to writing and using loveletters in your campaign/one-shots and possibly having some new XP-system*.  (I sometimes have an off-feel for the current, though I see several arguments for it. Just now I felt that we're in a spot were  you can read persons ten times for two advances and little fictional progress). I do love the Blades in the Dark-XP advancement, though:

Do these (four) things per session an gain XP. (I'm so making a post about this!)



Maybe a "best practice" for players (as the MC chapter is for the MC) could be an idea?

I off course realize that we're her at Barf forth apocalyptica - were all my wishes come true, so basically I'm telling everyone I like ApW moves way over DW, and I'm really psyched about the 2nd ed.
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: Borogove on July 30, 2015, 08:14:17 PM
Sounds good! As soon as John "Carpenter" Harper explained when you seize by force it became the best and clearest versitile moves there is.

Ugh, just tracked down that reference and now I'm more confused than ever about SBF. I'm glad the new combat system is shaping up the way it is.
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: noclue on July 30, 2015, 08:45:06 PM
I think I'd like AW2 to be the same as AW1.
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: ArchonGamer on July 31, 2015, 02:50:41 AM
I think I'd like AW2 to be the same as AW1.
that sounds like you can just put a sticker on your AW1 that says 2nd Edition then. I personally think everything can be improved from food, people, cars, houses, music, to gaming systems. Once you stop growing and improving you start dying.

AW has done some neat things, and some head scratching things (not in a good think about it way, more WTF where you thinking way) and it could be better and improved on by growing on its foundation and learning from other "powered by apocalypse" systems.
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: Maleficum on July 31, 2015, 05:26:46 AM
I like the new stuff I've seen, and allthough I kind of like the prerogative to stay with the Playbook's owner, it's probably better and more close to common practice to let the conversation deal.

I think probably my favorite thing about Apocalypse Word was Hx and how your playbook helped define you, the relationship between the others and even the others (to at least a minor extent).

"You left me bleeding once, and did nothing", "you've been beside me and seen everything I've seen" and "you've been with me since before" are not only profound statements, but they lend inspiration to evocative questions bringing the game and the game world further from the get-go.

I think the Skinners are really powerful, and define the untangible power of some entrancing personality in a world of crumbs, rust and gunsmoke.

"You're my friend, gunlugger", "you're my lover, Hocus... and Hardholder, you're in love with me, -1Hx"


I think this will get better, and I like that everyone will have to work for a living. (In our current game I think we're all mooching off the Harholder.)
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: Dandyetical on July 31, 2015, 01:54:12 PM
Quote
I think probably my favorite thing about Apocalypse Word was Hx and how your playbook helped define you, the relationship between the others and even the others (to at least a minor extent).

As someone who's had a couple characters buried and made into complete jokes, I think Hx puts too much power in the hands of people making the statements and I like the direction 2e is going with it.
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: Borogove on July 31, 2015, 02:35:16 PM
As someone who's had a couple characters buried and made into complete jokes, I think Hx puts too much power in the hands of people making the statements and I like the direction 2e is going with it.

Oh, wow, I hadn't seen those changes.

2e is definitely *safer* in that regard. Not sure if that's better.
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: noclue on July 31, 2015, 02:53:24 PM
Hx is my favorite part of the system as well. But, I've never had anyone turn my character into a joke. I dont think I would let them. I doubt I would want to play with anyone who tried.
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: Ebok on July 31, 2015, 11:01:25 PM
I already started playing hacked AW2E in weekly games. It is Great fun. I am interested in seeing how the other changes end up, and of course, will be adding the book into the collection regardless.

I never did have any issue understanding the potential of the base moves though. I'm really not sure which part confused people in AW1E. Looking forward for the new rule-pieces to chop up into other stuff >:D
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: Maleficum on August 01, 2015, 09:30:48 AM
I already started playing hacked AW2E in weekly games. It is Great fun. I am interested in seeing how the other changes end up, and of course, will be adding the book into the collection regardless.

I never did have any issue understanding the potential of the base moves though. I'm really not sure which part confused people in AW1E. Looking forward for the new rule-pieces to chop up into other stuff >:D

After John Harper explained seize by force as "when you're more interested in what the other(s) got, instead of what they can do" it clicked. The other moves are great, though I needed to play to understand how play (i.e. fiction) dictates what moves are rolled.


I really love the change-stat-moves, but I think I'd like more moves for at least Cool and Weird, though I realize that awesome campaign-defining moves help roll for those stats were the moves are substituted.

Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: Gavinwulf on August 04, 2015, 04:01:35 AM
I for one am not really interested in the new edition from what I've seen of the previews. The basic moves and stats were awesome because they simplified and streamlined so much. Making them more complicated is a step backwards IMO.
Just my preference, I know Vincent is not looking for feedback or votes.
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: Ell975 on August 04, 2015, 07:43:54 AM
I for one am not really interested in the new edition from what I've seen of the previews. The basic moves and stats were awesome because they simplified and streamlined so much. Making them more complicated is a step backwards IMO.
Just my preference, I know Vincent is not looking for feedback or votes.

But the new edition has so many other changes, the battle moves are just the most obvious. The debility changes, the change to hx, tons of little things which will just make the game better.
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: jimmeu on August 04, 2015, 10:52:30 AM
I'm a bit disappointed too by the 2e draft battle moves.
Having a subsystem to handle combat, in my group, has always lead to some kind of breaking pace. It feels to me a little like in japanese rpgs where the beginning of any fight stops time, puts you to a different display with tactical choices, and you go back to normal gaming like if nothing happened when the fight is finished.
It's even worse with the fact that those subsystems work much by themselves, having the player only making technical-tactical choices instead of narrating what he does like the rest of the time.
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: emptyvacuum on August 04, 2015, 11:58:49 AM
I already started playing hacked AW2E in weekly games. It is Great fun. I am interested in seeing how the other changes end up, and of course, will be adding the book into the collection regardless.

I never did have any issue understanding the potential of the base moves though. I'm really not sure which part confused people in AW1E. Looking forward for the new rule-pieces to chop up into other stuff >:D

After John Harper explained seize by force as "when you're more interested in what the other(s) got, instead of what they can do" it clicked. The other moves are great, though I needed to play to understand how play (i.e. fiction) dictates what moves are rolled.


I really love the change-stat-moves, but I think I'd like more moves for at least Cool and Weird, though I realize that awesome campaign-defining moves help roll for those stats were the moves are substituted.

I've been trying to find these John Harper explanations of Seize by Force I keep hearing about and I'm having a hard time, could you give me a link to them?
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: Borogove on August 04, 2015, 04:35:57 PM
I already started playing hacked AW2E in weekly games. It is Great fun. I am interested in seeing how the other changes end up, and of course, will be adding the book into the collection regardless.

I never did have any issue understanding the potential of the base moves though. I'm really not sure which part confused people in AW1E. Looking forward for the new rule-pieces to chop up into other stuff >:D

After John Harper explained seize by force as "when you're more interested in what the other(s) got, instead of what they can do" it clicked. The other moves are great, though I needed to play to understand how play (i.e. fiction) dictates what moves are rolled.


I really love the change-stat-moves, but I think I'd like more moves for at least Cool and Weird, though I realize that awesome campaign-defining moves help roll for those stats were the moves are substituted.

I've been trying to find these John Harper explanations of Seize by Force I keep hearing about and I'm having a hard time, could you give me a link to them?

It's the first google hit for "john harper seize by force (http://mightyatom.blogspot.com/2010/11/aw-seize-by-force-is-peripheral-move.html)" ;) 


Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: silva on August 04, 2015, 10:28:26 PM
I for one am not really interested in the new edition from what I've seen of the previews. The basic moves and stats were awesome because they simplified and streamlined so much. Making them more complicated is a step backwards IMO.

Exactly my thoughts.

Well, at least we will have a lot of new peripheral moves at our disposal to use in 1st edition. :)
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: noclue on August 05, 2015, 01:12:12 AM
Does it have grappling rules?
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: Ebok on August 05, 2015, 01:17:50 AM
If you want other modes of fighting, like grapple, honor, travel supplies, or what have you. You'll probably need to built it yourself. The game is very modular like that. Although really? If you like the Battle rules for the 2E then yeah, you can probably take 2 minutes out and have a grapple skill set that functions just like it should.

I don't use them myself, but, going into details about what I do and what the rules will be is something for his patreon. There will be lots of discussion on these topics when it goes live.
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: Gavinwulf on August 05, 2015, 01:46:50 AM
I for one am not really interested in the new edition from what I've seen of the previews. The basic moves and stats were awesome because they simplified and streamlined so much. Making them more complicated is a step backwards IMO.

Exactly my thoughts.

Well, at least we will have a lot of new peripheral moves at our disposal to use in 1st edition. :)

True that, I do like the new ideas with the Debilities and a few other things.


To the poster wondering about which combat moves to use, it goes like this:

Are you both clearly swinging or shooting at eachother? Seize. Are you trying to surprise them w an attack from an advantageous position? Go Aggro.

If you charge right into battle with clear intent use Seize. You will almost always take some Harm.
If you want to be careful and nimble, move in with Act Under Fire, then Go Aggro. The second tactic requires more rolls so there is the chance of failing hard. But also the chance of 'winning' completely unscathed.
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: emptyvacuum on August 05, 2015, 11:29:01 AM
Quote
It's the first google hit for "john harper seize by force (http://mightyatom.blogspot.com/2010/11/aw-seize-by-force-is-peripheral-move.html)" ;)

Well that explains it, I kept using forum search! The "click" was once I read these comments:

"@Christian: The trouble is, when you make the Seize by force move, you automatically get shot (you suffer the enemy's harm when you make the move, succeed or fail). This rarely matches what the character is doing in the fiction. Usually, they're trying to take cover, move around, stick their head out and shoot when they can, etc. That's acting under fire and going aggro, IMO.

John Harper10:52 AM
For what it's worth, I don't think I'm saying anything very controversial.

p. 197 of AW ("Acting With Violence") is pretty much how I run it. It's just that "harm for harm, toe to toe" is not how the savvy wastelander -- with limited access to medical care -- does her violence. So, seize is pretty rare in play (not absent, just rare)."
Title: Re: Apocalypse World 2nd Edition
Post by: noclue on August 05, 2015, 04:41:48 PM
If you want other modes of fighting, like grapple, honor, travel supplies, or what have you...
That was just me trying to be funny.