Barf Forth Apocalyptica
barf forth apocalyptica => Apocalypse World => Topic started by: Bret on September 29, 2010, 10:58:41 AM
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Does that include sex moves?
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I'd say no, as they aren't technically moves. They are written down as specials, as in "Brainer Special" and "Operator Special". There's nothing about moves there.
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They are referred to as sex moves multiple times in the rules. And WITHIN those Specials.
Example:
If you and another character have sex, nullify the other character's sex move. Whatever it is, it just doesn't happen.
So yes, there is something about moves in there.
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If you did allow a character to take another sex move, what would happen? Would it supersede the old one? Would they both happen?
I would say you shouldn't, as the sex move really speaks to the core of a character type. I can't see the "canonical" AW Driver playing "hit it and quit it" like the Battlebabe, for example. Outside of his car, he's just not cool enough. (Then again, what if he was having sex inside his car... hmm.)
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Combining Angel & Chopper sex moves gives you this:
They set their Hx at +3. You set your Hx at +3.
They get +1 Hx with you. You get +1 or -1 Hx with them, at their choice.
Translation:
Both of you mark experience.
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All that time the Angel and Chopper spent fucking looks to me like an opportunity for a hard move on a golden platter.
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Are you taking my maelstrom baby advice to heart, Bret
because it would be the best result for these kinds of shenanigans
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All that time the Angel and Chopper spent fucking looks to me like an opportunity for a hard move on a golden platter.
My idea was to double-up on the Angel & Chopper sex moves.
Then you'd have the sex move "Whenever you have sex with someone, both of you mark experience."
Then you could hook up with a Gunlugger, and both of you would become AWESOME via sex. Which, let's get real here: that's the game I really want to be playing. The one where I min/max having sex for mechanical benefit.
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The one where I min/max having sex for mechanical benefit.
I play games to escape my life, Joe, not recreate it.
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TMI, man.
But for reals: sex moves speak to the very heart of the character. If you want a different heart, play a different playbook.
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Why can you say that about the sex move and not any of the other playbook moves though? I don't buy it. Doesn't the Angels healing abilities speak to the heart of the character? Doesn't the Brainer's psycho brainmelt abilities? You can take them.
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Which, let's get real here: that's the game I really want to be playing. The one where I min/max having sex for mechanical benefit.
Do you mean "that's the game of Apocalypse World I really want to be playing"? Because if you just mean game, in general, it already exists: I think it's called Bliss Stage.
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@Bret: I really hope I didn't come off cross. If you don't buy it, you don't buy it, and that's cool. Nothing says this all has to mean the same thing to all of us. But if you'll indulge me, here's the basis for my argument:
The Angel's healing moves are what he does, you know? He picks up his angel kit and goes out bravely into the world to patch up those with the misfortune to have their guts aspilled.
His sex move, however, I think is who he is. He cares about people, and lives; he has to, or he wouldn't do what he does. His Hx goes to +3 with whoever he sleeps with because he genuinely cares about his partner; he doesn't have to like him/her, but he cares enough to really understand this person. Maybe it turns out he finds something he didn't like, and he knows to stay away; still, Hx+3 means he's in better shape to do so.
The driver drives cars, and is fast, and is awesome at it. Why? Because he doesn't want to be tied down. His sex move is disadvantageous for him because despite his burning desire to not be tied down, he's been captured and made vulnerable by his partner. It's great in the moment but there's something in it that grates against his tendencies.
Anybody can take a no shit driver or healing touch, but they flesh out what the character does, not who he/she is. Changing sex moves, since they reflect the character's fundamental philosophy, essentially rewrites his entire outlook top to bottom.
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I dig it, but I don't see why changing a character's fundamental philosophy is a bad thing. You're opening your character to complexity and multiple complimentary or conflicting outlooks.
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So let's roll with that. We're starting to blur the line between this and the ungiven future, you know? The only other choice I can think of that changes a character's outlook and drive so violently is switching playbooks. You hang onto some (most?) of the vestiges of your old life but approach it from a new way, but it means leaving your old self behind.
That does raise another question in my mind; you hang onto your old stats and most of your old moves when you change playbooks, IIRC, but what happens to your sex move? Do you get your new one? Hang onto the old one? Choose?
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That does raise another question in my mind; you hang onto your old stats and most of your old moves when you change playbooks, IIRC, but what happens to your sex move? Do you get your new one? Hang onto the old one? Choose?
It probably depends, I would think. In most cases I'd expect it to switch to the new one. Let's look at the driver. I've got a driver in my game, and if the game continues long enough, I expect him to either switch to a new playbook or take a second character. I've warned him, that if he switches playbooks, he's almost definitely going to be giving up his cars. Because (at least this is how I look at it) what does it mean to switch playbooks away from the Driver? It means you're done with being a driver, and you want to be something else, right? Presumably, this means you're no longer so worried about being "tied down" so the driver's sex move is likely not as relevant any more either.
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Hot. I agree wholeheartedly.
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Jim, all the thematic stuff makes sense so I'm not going to really keep putting up that fight, but I want it to make sense from a rules perspective too. Those are moves, right?
A player of mine is asking me, and I'm not convinced I should or can say no.
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Cool, I get you. Thinking on rules: I'm not sure if they're moves in the conventional sense or what. Your guy is essentially trying to end up with a move that says, "When you have sex with someone, set your Hx with them to +1, and their Hx with you to +1. Both of you mark experience." That seems to me like a pretty obvious attempt to game the system, you know? It kind of grinds my gears a little bit to think about it.
If that's true, and you allow it, the guy's basically going to be fucking PCs like bunnies. When someone's Hx hits +4 and gets reset, it's because the character has transcended some level of "knowing someone". So what are they learning? That this guy is a nympho? And on top of that, if he's spending so much time in the sack, what's going on around him that he's missing, or what is he spreading around? (Hard move time?) He might just end up with enough rope to hang himself.
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My personal vote is: "You can't! Sex moves are clearly special, it says so right on the character sheet. If you want a new sex move, change playbooks."
Also possible: "Sure! But you can have only one sex move, so it'll replace the one you've got."
Also possible: "Sure! Go for it."
The first is the only one that got playtested. I expect it'll be fine whichever you choose, though. It changes the landscape of play, but not your directions, if you see what I mean.
-Vincent
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So, my min/max silliness aside:
Everyone seems to agree: the sex move is a window into a character's soul. It says much about who they are, what makes them tick, and what their hopes & fears are.
So, if your player wants to change sex moves, I'd suggest talking that perspective through with them. Is your player looking to make radical statements about how they are changing as a person? If so, swapping sex moves makes sense.
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Jim, player is a she rather than a he. And you're thinking of Joe's example. That is not the combination of sex moves my player wants at all. She played a Skinner at one point and is now finding she wished she had the Skinner's Sex Move for her character because she really liked it.
Vincent, I'll probably go with the first one. She's already talked about switching to the Skinner Playbook when she hits her 6th advance anyway. I think she can be patient.
Joe, she has some ideas about wanting to get her character pregnant in order to manipulate some of the local warlords, and she was thinking of how the Skinner sex move worked. We can probably come up with a custom move for her.
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D'oh! Sorry! My bad, on both counts.
Well, suffice it to say we have a solution anyway. All things considered, switching her to the skinner playbook does exactly what she wants, and it works from a rule standpoint and a thematic standpoint. Glad this all helped grease the creative wheels.
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Combine sex moves? Sure, no problem, but it's going to take months of work, you're going to need the battlebabe to help you with it, it's going to mean exposing yourself and others to serious danger, and you're going to have to add a rotating bed and a disco lights to your workplace first.
(I was torn between those and .. is going to take hundreds of tries and you're going to have to take your organ apart to do it.)
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Okay, roll+cool for acting under fire, and the fire is that you'll lose it cracking up laughing at work.
*rolls*
11. Whew.