Barf Forth Apocalyptica
barf forth apocalyptica => Apocalypse World => Topic started by: fnord3125 on August 05, 2010, 01:15:54 PM
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So the Operator starts with an obligation gig and gets more if he has sex with someone.
How else do people get obligation gigs? Can I, as MC, just tell someone that something is going to be an obligation gig if it seems appropriate, or what?
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I wish I knew, because obligation gigs are one of my favourite things in the game, but nobody ever seems to play a damn Operator 'round here!
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Well, presumably you can get them right out of the fiction.
Like, if your Operator borrows a huge amount of jingle from some warlord then that's another Obligation:debt gig right there.
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And, I suppose, if the MC doesn't just want to say, "Hey, you've got an obligation gig now," he could also have custom moves for threats or some such that could give people obligation gigs.
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See, I see Obligation gigs as something kind of unique to the Operator. Unlike the other Playbooks, he gets all his scratch from juggling gigs which necessarily requires him to have to prioritize his paying gigs over having relationships with people. It's just part of how he interacts with other humans.
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What Mike and fnord said. You don't even need custom moves to do it, although you certainly could if you wanted.
Offer them an opportunity, with or without a cost.
Tell them the possible consequences, and ask.
"You sure you want to kill Dremmer's son? I mean, he's gonna be after you until the end of the end of days, if you do. And wouldn't that be just what you need, Mr. Operator Sir, yet another thing on your plate, if you catch my not so subtle 'this will be a new obligation gig' drift?"
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Tell them the possible consequences, and ask.
"You sure you want to kill Dremmer's son? I mean, he's gonna be after you until the end of the end of days, if you do. And wouldn't that be just what you need, Mr. Operator Sir, yet another thing on your plate, if you catch my not so subtle 'this will be a new obligation gig' drift?"
Can it happen like this even if the PC's not an operator?
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I suppose that would be up to you as the MC. If they don't already have Moonlighting it might not make much sense to give them a gig as opposed to it being, y'know, just another aspect of the situation that they find themselves in.
When in doubt, ask yourself, does representing this situation mechanically as an obligation gig make the world seem more real? Does it make the character's life more interesting? If so, go for it.
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Sorry to revive such an old topic, but as this was already discussed, I thought I will post it here.
My operator had debt as his obligation gig - to the local boss, who was kind-of hardholder (but NPC). Boss died, there was some fuss afterwards, and now it seems, this debt is off the table.
Does he get new obligation gig instead, or is that just descriptive - I mean, if he gets something like-a-gig in game, I should give him obligation?
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Zefir, sounds legit for your operator to erase that obligation gig from his playbook, after all, it follows the fiction. I'm sure it will only take a session for you to see an opportunity to tie a new obligation gig to him that will crop up naturally in the fiction. He makes a powerful enemy or his crew is tired of slumming it.
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Gigs are prescriptive and descriptive, like everything else on the character sheet. The obligation gig is gone (so is the +1 juggling in Moonlighting)
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Gigs are prescriptive and descriptive, like everything else on the character sheet. The obligation gig is gone (so is the +1 juggling in Moonlighting)
I'm not sure I agree with the last bit... (loss of +1 juggling).
Doesn't sit right, doesn't make much sense.
- Alex
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Not sure I'm right, but just to think this through. So, assuming you got a +1 juggling from the obligation gig, say as per your sex move, and your juggling is now 3, that allows you to work the obligation gig without reducing the number of other gigs you're working. After that obligation gig is gone, why does it make sense for you to be able to work 3 random gigs now instead of 2?
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Realistically, they have 3 juggling because they've gotten good at doing lots of things at once. If they've managed to settle an obligation gig for good, why should the be less good at that?
Your job is to make apocalypse world seem real and be a fan of the players characters, not deny them things they want or could use.
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Realistically, they have 3 juggling because they've gotten good at doing lots of things at once. If they've managed to settle an obligation gig for good, why should the be less good at that?
Your job is to make apocalypse world seem real and be a fan of the players characters, not deny them things they want or could use.
The raptor has the right of it, I think. Getting gigs adds juggling, but I don't think the gaining of a gig and the +juggling are tied together in, say, the way gaining a gun and being able to shoot someone is.
Juggling is, right, "I can handle this many things on my plate at once.". As an operator gains gigs, he also learns to push himself, throwing more things on more burners. Just because he resolves some one particular thing (obligation or plain gig even), I don't think he'd suddenly not be able to handle as much.
OTOH, I'd be totally justified in saying an operator lost a juggling if, say, they started giving 24-hour attention to some other thing, neglecting some or all of their work, sure.
- Alex
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I will probably settle, on giving him some new obligation when occasion arises, but not giving another +1 juggling yet.
This is offset by fact that he neglected the obligation gig for three first sessions, and didn't get any consequences (I didn't get how this works clearly enough). And death of guy he owed obligation to, happened out of session, and to be honest - he had nothing to do with that.
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You could always have some agent of the NPC in question continue hounding him. There are specific consequences for unworked obligation gigs. Not as good as working them, but not as good as catastrophe from them.
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The issue is, that both the guy that he owed them, and basically everyone connected with them is going out the window.
On the other hand, he kind of arranged the coup - bringing together one of powerful families in the city, and the chopper which plans to change his character to hardholder from next session. So putting consequences of this obligation gig on him, would feel a bit forced.
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Realistically, they have 3 juggling because they've gotten good at doing lots of things at once. If they've managed to settle an obligation gig for good, why should the be less good at that?
Your job is to make apocalypse world seem real and be a fan of the players characters, not deny them things they want or could use.
I don't see it this way at all. He starts out with 2 juggling, which means he can work his starting obligation gig and one other, or two gigs and ignore his obligations if he's willing to suffer the consequences. He then sleeps with 3 characters and gets 3 more gigs. If juggling stayed the same, he'd be swamped by obligation gigs that he couldn't work even if he worked no profit making gigs, that's a big disincentive for getting new gigs, and a disincentive for triggering the sex move. But since juggling goes up by 3 for the new gigs, there's no mechanical trade off. Obligation gigs may cause all sorts of headaches but the moonlighting roll is the same. So, no disincentive.
Now, if you get to keep the plus one juggling every time you sleep with someone, that's a poweful incentive for the sex move, but I'm not sure it's intended. And that's what I'm thinking about. There's already an advancement effect built into the moonlighting move when you improve Cool, after all.
I don't see much connection between juggling going up after sex and how real things seem. I also don't think being a fan of the character means they don't ever lose things, even if it would be spiffy to be able to work 5 gigs and profit from 4 of them on a 7-9. It might be being a fan of the character to enjoy seeing how the operator deals with a world of scarcity, where they have to make hard choices about how they spend their precious time.
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Oh for some reason I was thinking they start with 3-juggling. I wouldn't drop them below 2 I guess is my point. Much more interesting to drop a new obligation in their lap. You're offering them an opportunity, very much with a cost.
You could even just come at the next session playing up the "unworked" option for a new obligation you spot in the fiction, and when they're like "hey why is Doghead everywhere I try to go today??" or "What the fuck, why can't birdie stay out of trouble?" you get to say "Oh shit, looks like you have a new obligation gig" and that gig is "Avoiding Doghead" or "Protecting Birdie" or whatever. The key is that you're basing it out of the fiction and waiting for that moment when they show they're invested in it. If they don't bite, maybe let it go and fish for something else.
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Realistically, they have 3 juggling because they've gotten good at doing lots of things at once. If they've managed to settle an obligation gig for good, why should the be less good at that?
Your job is to make apocalypse world seem real and be a fan of the players characters, not deny them things they want or could use.
I don't see it this way at all. He starts out with 2 juggling, which means he can work his starting obligation gig and one other, or two gigs and ignore his obligations if he's willing to suffer the consequences. He then sleeps with 3 characters and gets 3 more gigs. If juggling stayed the same, he'd be swamped by obligation gigs that he couldn't work even if he worked no profit making gigs, that's a big disincentive for getting new gigs, and a disincentive for triggering the sex move. But since juggling goes up by 3 for the new gigs, there's no mechanical trade off. Obligation gigs may cause all sorts of headaches but the moonlighting roll is the same. So, no disincentive.
Now, if you get to keep the plus one juggling every time you sleep with someone, that's a poweful incentive for the sex move, but I'm not sure it's intended. And that's what I'm thinking about. There's already an advancement effect built into the moonlighting move when you improve Cool, after all.
I don't see much connection between juggling going up after sex and how real things seem. I also don't think being a fan of the character means they don't ever lose things, even if it would be spiffy to be able to work 5 gigs and profit from 4 of them on a 7-9. It might be being a fan of the character to enjoy seeing how the operator deals with a world of scarcity, where they have to make hard choices about how they spend their precious time.
Hm! Yeah, I didn't much account for the sex move. Yeah, that's a weird one.
- AD
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It comes down to how the operator views having sex with someone. I'm playing an operator in our current game, and I've done exactly that: had sex with people with the (as a player) hidden motive that I will get +1 juggling and hopefully come out on top. So far young Transfer has fucked two people:
- Manja, who is the most beautiful girl he's ever seen, and who runs an establishment in one end of town (pretty much an NPC Maestro d')
– The Patriarchy, who is an old man who runs the bustling marketplace and bloodsports arena in the other end of town. Transfer wanted to set up shop at his place selling drugs, maybe stationing one of her crew there at all times doing business, and fucking The Patriarchy seemed to be the fastest way.
Now, both of these people mean a lot to me, to Transfer, and to the game. If I screw up "Keeping Manja happy", Transfer won't be happy – from the outside view it's probably mostly infatuation with a beautiful girl who has, for some reason, noticed me (dream come true!), but it sure feels like true love. I work that gig every other session.
"Keeping The Patriarchy happy", aside from being the best name for an obligation gig ever, is also important. If I don't, my little herion tent near the arena won't stay in business, and The Patriarchy is generally not someone you want as an enemy; I do a lot of business in that marketplace (other gigs are surveillance, delivieres and brokering deals). I just got it, but I definitely plan to work this obligation gig now and then. 4-juggling doesn't seem so much now, just as you said – getting new obligation gigs from sex need +1juggling to keep things even.
What would happen if Manja got herself killed? What if I made Transfer kill her? I haven't talked to my MC, but I actually expect to keep all the juggling increases. Because i have to fight for them, either by being plagued by those obligation gigs or by resolving them. Resolving means either spending an advance, getting the people killed (which might not help with The Patriarchy, but instead just transform it into "avoiding The Patriarchy's men") or really working to get the relationship to a stable place. Advancing Manipulate and turning them into allies might work.
In contrast, consider an Operator who has cheap sex with anyone and then leaves them. Now, the rules still creates those obligation gigs, and the MC must still regard them as golden opportunities for complications when you don't work them. So yeah, you're going to be haunted by all those exes. Depending on who they are, you could get them killed but... In a way, the main this shows is how effective a ruthless approach can be – all it takes is that you don't care at all. For the people you got to sleep with you. Fuckin' thumbs up, mr super-Operator.
I say keep the +1juggling from all obligation gigs. The fact that you have them as obligation gigs means you're working to pay it off, one way or another.