Barf Forth Apocalyptica
powered by the apocalypse => Monsterhearts => Topic started by: mcdaldno on July 27, 2010, 09:19:29 PM
-
When you gaze into the abyss, roll +dark.
On a 10+, choose 3: it shows you what you asked to see; it's telling the truth; carry +1 forward when confronting the situation; it could always have been worse. On a 7-9, choose up to 3 from that list, but suffer 1 harm for each. On a miss, the abyss shows you whatever the fuck it wants to, and then threatens you. Meet its' demand, or become your Darkest Self.
-
this is totally a stylistic suggestion, but one thing I like about AW proper is how all the stats (except for Hx) are adjectives. So someone can say, like "That dude? Watch out, he's really fucking hard" and it doesn't seem weird the way it would in other games if a character talks about someone's "charisma."
-
"That dude? The one who always sits in the corner by himself, just staring off blankly? That dude is so fucking dark. What's his problem, anyways?"
-
Yeah, you're totally on that road now, I'm just saying I hope you stay there. :) At one point you were talking about a stat you were calling "sway" and that name doesn't work in that way. But it's a style thing, so I don't think there's any right answers, either.
-
Hot, Cold, Fickle, Steady, Dark.
When you manipulate, roll +hot.
(getting what you want)
When you turn others on, roll +hot.
(establishing strings)
When you keep others at a distance, roll +cold.
(canceling out others' strings)
When you take something from someone, roll +cold.
(taking stuff)
When you lash out, roll +fickle.
(forcing others to back off, hurting others)
When you back away, roll +fickle.
(escaping)
When you stay calm, roll +steady.
(acting under fire)
When you gaze into the abyss, roll +dark.
(portents and prophecies, crystal balls)
-
Fickle sounds a little weak to my ear.
How about Wild instead?
-
Maybe. I was angling towards instability... impulsiveness... entering fight or flight mode instead of keeping your nerve about you.
Fiesty, Impulsive, Unstable, Reactive, Tense, Wild...
I don't know if wild captures it, exactly.
-
Feral? Unruly?
-
Volatile. Done and done.
I want it to sound messy and based-upon-fear, not awesome.
Feral and Wild both sound way too bad-ass.
Volatile.
-
Alright, in the end, Christian won and I retitled that stat Unruly.
Hot means fucking gorgeous, alluring, exciting, hot, someone you can't stop thinking about, whose secrets you want to learn about.
Cold means cold-hearted, calculating, steely, unwavering, able to sever ties and move on, able to be cruel.
Steady means calm, cautious, collected, able to blend in, able to handle sketchy situations, good at keeping secrets.
Unruly means volatile, impulsive, wild, feral, quick-tempered, quick to enter fight-or-flight mode.
Dark means spooky, weird, mysterious, sinister, dabbling in the occult, comfortable in darkness, powerful.
So, that's it. Hot, Cold, Steady, Unruly, Dark.
When you manipulate someone, roll +hot. For NPCs: On a 10+, they give you what you want if you make them feel like they're getting what they want. On a 7-9, they'll make a demand of you. Give them concrete assurances, and they'll give you what you want. For PCs: On a 10+, both. On a 7-9, choose one:
*if they do it, they mark experience
*if they don't do it, they need to try to keep it together
The choice is theirs.
When you turn someone on, roll +hot. On a 10+, take 1 String against them. On a 7-9, they choose one: give themselves to you, promise something they think you want, give you 1 String against them. On a miss, you've overplayed your hand.
When you shut others down, roll +cold. On a 10+, choose 3. On a 7-9, choose 2: they lose 1 String against you, they don't see your true weakness, you don't need to try to keep it together next time you see them, you don't look like a harsh asshole.
When you take something from someone, roll +cold. On a 10+, choose 3. On a 7-9, choose 1: you take definite hold of it, you don't leave yourself vulnerable (thus giving them +1forward to retaliate), you harm them, you frighten them.
When you try to keep it together, roll +steady. On a 10+, you're fine. On a 7-9, choose one: you freeze up, you lash out at someone, you garner suspicion. On a miss, you expose your true self to the wrong person.
When you lash out, roll +unruly. On a 10+, you harm them and choose 1: the harm is great (2), you gain 1 String on them, they need to try to keep it together in order to do anything about it. On a 7-9, you harm them and choose 1: they gain 1 String on you, you become your Darkest Self. On a miss, you are left vulnerable (giving them +1forward to retaliate), and the MC makes a hard move.
When you run away from a situation, roll +unruly. On a 10+, you get away and you're safe. On a 7-9, choose 2: you don't cause a commotion, you get away, the biggest threat doesn't gain a String on you, you don't run directly into something worse. On a miss, you don't get away at all, and the MC makes a hard move.
When you gaze into the abyss, roll +dark. On a hit, ask something of the abyss. On a 10+, choose 3: it shows you what you asked to see; it's telling the truth; carry +1 forward when confronting the situation; it could always have been worse. On a 7-9, choose up to 3 from that list, but suffer 1 harm for each. On a miss, the abyss shows you whatever the fuck it wants to, and then threatens you. Meet its demand, or become your Darkest Self.
-
When you turn someone on
Only one question for the moment is this actually "when you TRY TO turn someone on"?
-
Brian,
I hemmed and hawwed over the word choice for that one. Ultimately, I thought back to high school (a scant five years ago, so this was easy).
And it struck me.
Teenagers have no fucking control over what turns them on.
So, you say, "Right, so when you enter my bedroom (says the player of the ghoul), I'm still asleep, the covers low enough that my sparse shoulders and severe ribcage are exposed. The Smiths are playing. I'm so, so thin. In a way that makes you want to care for me, but also just fuck me until I fall apart. The whole scene turns you on."
It's kinda like "when you seduce or manipulate", except it has no goal or even negotiation on the table. It's just, "I wanna get under your skin."
So yeah, if I'd put the words "when you try to" at the start of every other move, I would have for this one as well. But, since I didn't, I didn't. It makes sense to me that hot teenagers don't need to take into consideration what others want, when they seduce. They can just throw their sexuality around like a live grenade.
-
It just feels weird to me that I can declare that my character is turning yours on. That's saying something pretty intimate about your character.
"When you enter my room, you see me sprawled on the floor, unconscious. My eyes are open and you can't even tell if I'm breathing. I look like I'm dead. It turns you on."
So suddenly you're apparently turned on by dead people, and you had no say in this.
-
So, you say, "Right, so when you enter my bedroom (says the player of the ghoul), I'm still asleep, the covers low enough that my sparse shoulders and severe ribcage are exposed. The Smiths are playing. I'm so, so thin. In a way that makes you want to care for me, but also just fuck me until I fall apart. The whole scene turns you on."
OK. That's the creepiest thing I've read all day . . .
-
Hm.
I think there's a line between 'if you do it, do it' and 'if you say you're doing it, you get to do it.' It seems like what Joe's getting at is, "If you do something with your sexuality, something that's reasonably likely to turn your target on, then you a) can assume they are turned on and b) make a move."
-
Maybe... I'm just bothered by the idea that I can't say, "Uhhh, no that doesn't turn my character on AT ALL." But I guess if that's how Joe wants the game to work, well... go for it.
-
Maybe... I'm just bothered by the idea that I can't say, "Uhhh, no that doesn't turn my character on AT ALL." But I guess if that's how Joe wants the game to work, well... go for it.
Alright, taken under consideration. It might get changed to "When you try to turn someone on" or "When you seduce someone" or "When you throw your sexuality around" or something else.
For the moment, I'd love feedback on other elements - the stats, the moves, concern about how the stats relate to one another, etc.
Any?
-
Unruly schmunruly! I think volatile is much better.
I like the thrust of the moves, but some of them have wishy-washy bits. "It could have been worse" would be stronger in the move than "it could always have been worse," for instance.
The "on a miss" clauses jump out at me. I found when I was designing my basic moves that if I had to write "on a miss...," it meant that I hadn't fully generalized the move to myself. It meant that I was designing an instance of the move, not the underlying move I was shooting for. For example: when you're running away and you miss the roll, why isn't "you get away, but you expose your true self to the wrong person" a legit outcome?
Along the same lines, if it were me I'd promote the very delicious final clause of the abyss move right up to a move of its own: "Sometimes the abyss will make a demand of you. Meet its demand or become your Darkest Self."
And I can't help commenting on the unwelcome topic! Sex is a lightning rod. (1) I agree with Shreyas. (2) You could, if you wanted, make it the subject's move. "When someone is turning you on, tell them; they roll+hot..."
-
Unruly schmunruly! I think volatile is much better.
Seeing Volatile & Steady side by side felt awkward, which is why I changed it. The Hot/Cold contrast was awesome, but Volatile/Steady felt a bit... overdone?
Gah, so hard! Taken under consideration - I may well jump back to volatile again.
The "on a miss" clauses jump out at me. I found when I was designing my basic moves that if I had to write "on a miss...," it meant that I hadn't fully generalized the move to myself. It meant that I was designing an instance of the move, not the underlying move I was shooting for. For example: when you're running away and you miss the roll, why isn't "you get away, but you expose your true self to the wrong person" a legit outcome?
Hm. Yeah, I get what you mean. I can strip the "on a miss" results from When you turn someone on and When you run away from a situation without losing anything.
And I can make one of the MC's listed moves "expose someone's true self to the wrong person," and generalize that threat, and thus strip the "on a miss" result from When you try to keep it together.
I really like the on a miss result for When you lash out, though. It speaks to something I think is true about the genre - when you lash out at others, that's when you're most likely to be vulnerable. And so while I'm happy to let the others slide, this one matters to me. Vx, counsel me - am I heading down the wrong design path, here?
Along the same lines, if it were me I'd promote the very delicious final clause of the abyss move right up to a move of its own: "Sometimes the abyss will make a demand of you. Meet its demand or become your Darkest Self."
My internal monologue at the moment: "What the fuck, you can do that?!"
Neat. I'm having trouble seeing this as a wholly independent move, but seeing it easily as a corollary to gazing into the abyss... like how the psychic maelstrom might ask you questions, the abyss might make demands. So, maybe that's the solution?
And I can't help commenting on the unwelcome topic! Sex is a lightning rod. (1) I agree with Shreyas. (2) You could, if you wanted, make it the subject's move. "When someone is turning you on, tell them; they roll+hot..."
Hm.
I don't think making it the subject's move is the right solution here, because turning others on is the primary way in which people wrack up Strings. You don't want people having strings against you (in that actually-i-love-it-because-i'm-an-indie-sadist sort of way).
But I like that you're spinning the move around and looking at it from different angles, and I should take some time to do the same.
-
Cool! Ultimately I agree with Shreyas about it, so I'm all like "if you wanted to, you could..." not "here's a possible solution to the problem." I don't think there's a problem. I think it's an opportunity for you to say exactly what you want to say.
"When the abyss makes a demand of you" is the same kind of move as "when you suffer harm," so sure, you can do that. If you want to make a structure of rules for when the abyss makes a demand -- "there are 3 circumstances under which the abyss will make a demand..." -- that's wholly allowed and almost certainly the right thing to do. I made a structure of rules for when you suffer harm.
> Vx, counsel me - am I heading down the wrong design path, here?
Oh pf. I'm not saying any such thing. There's not even any real hard line between basic moves and character moves; it's certainly okay to say what happens on a miss, when that's what you want to do.
-
I can deal with the "XYZ turns you on" if I then get to choose how I react to that arousal. There's a fine line between expressing the weirdness and danger of teen sexuality, and putting actions onto my character without my buy-in. So yeah, messed up goth-punk ghoul might be hot, but can I still choose to not get involved with that drama-show? Sometimes arousal is a warning you're in danger, and sometimes you can listen.
-
The "on a miss" clauses jump out at me. I found when I was designing my basic moves that if I had to write "on a miss...," it meant that I hadn't fully generalized the move to myself. It meant that I was designing an instance of the move, not the underlying move I was shooting for.
Any chance you might be able to talk about this in more detail in the Blood & Guts forum?
-
I can deal with the "XYZ turns you on" if I then get to choose how I react to that arousal. There's a fine line between expressing the weirdness and danger of teen sexuality, and putting actions onto my character without my buy-in. So yeah, messed up goth-punk ghoul might be hot, but can I still choose to not get involved with that drama-show? Sometimes arousal is a warning you're in danger, and sometimes you can listen.
*nods*
The move absolutely doesn't force actions on the aroused, in its current state. It sets up a String. On a 7-9 result, it gives the aroused two options out of that String (giving yourself or giving a promise), but they're only options.
I haven't unpacked how Strings get spent yet, which I should get around to at some point. Essentially, it's still not solid in my head, but is something like:
Spend a String to:
*add +1 to your next move against them
*add -1 to their next move against you
*declare that doing that certain thing requires they try to hold it together (if you're in the scene or it affects you)
*offer them experience to do what you want
*add +1 harm to harm you do to them
Something along those lines. Similar to when you have a hold from In-Brain Puppet Strings, or when you seduce/manipulate a PC in Apocalypse World.
-
Yeah, use Volatile. Much more punchy than Unruly. And in a game that lists Twilight as a source, there should be no worries about overdoing anything. :)