Barf Forth Apocalyptica
powered by the apocalypse => Monsterhearts => Topic started by: mcdaldno on July 26, 2010, 05:09:30 PM
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Skins are like: Mortal, Witch, Werewolf, Vampire, Fae, etc.
What should the skins list include?
Maybe...
Mortal, Chosen, Angel, Demon, Witch, Werewolf, Vampire, Fae, Lich, Monster, Homunculus, Alien, Elemental, Sorcerer, Possessed, Ghoul, Wraith, Ghost
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What should the skins list include?
Maybe...
Mortal, Chosen, Angel, Demon, Witch, Werewolf, Vampire, Fae, Lich, Monster, Homunculus, Alien, Elemental, Sorcerer, Possessed, Ghoul, Wraith, Ghost
I think that Angel, Demon, Ghost, Wraith and Possessed probably have more crossover than they need. Is a Demon a Fallen Angel? Lich is a Sorceror or a Ghost, really. Monster is way too vague.
Also, Alien seems like it ought not to be on the list, but maybe...
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Mutant. (This one may need to be somewhat flexible in the exact fictional content of its custom moves.)
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Also, Alien seems like it ought not to be on the list, but maybe...
See, it stands out on the list like a sore thumb, but:
(http://www.dancaster.com/ejw/The_Faculty.jpg)
The Faculty is absolutely a genre staple.
Though, The Faculty isn't about aliens, it's about people infected with a space virus.
There are a couple other movies about how sexual tension gets even messier when a shape-changing alien space virus is involved, but I forget what they are, at the moment.
I think Alien might work if it were either about being in control of an inhuman swarm (Hive Queen, Spider, Spawn, Spawn Lord, etc), or was about being touched by the darkness of space (Abducted, Infected, Star-Touched, Celestial, Voidling).
Thoughts?
Agree that some things on the list had too much cross-over. If you have Demon, you don't need Possessed. Ghost and Wraith are the same thing. So on. I was just brainstorming.
With Lich, I was going for animated-beyond-death. Lich, Ghoul, Wraith. Basically, a mummy/skeleton/zombie that rocks the anorexic chic look, with stark white skin. What to call this? Why to include this?
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Mutant. (This one may need to be somewhat flexible in the exact fictional content of its custom moves.)
Cool!
I'm excited about the Mutant. It covers what I wanted to cover with Monster.
At one point in Buffy, Xander becomes this gill monster thing.
I wanted a playbook for that thing.
Monster was a weak attempt at that. Mutant is better.
Xander starts as a Loyal Mortal, and at that point in the game switches to Loyal Mutant.
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I'd vote for Mortal, Demon, Witch/Sorcerer, Werewolf, Vampire, Fey and Wraith/Ghost are the most interesting and recognisable ones.
I could see mutant being cool too I guess, but it seems to be a generic catch all, so it doesn't pop like the others do.
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Ah, see, what I was thinking of was X-Men. You have some power and everyone will hate and fear you if they find out, but you can pass.
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Ah, see, what I was thinking of was X-Men. You have some power and everyone will hate and fear you if they find out, but you can pass.
So, on the topic of X-Men: Rogue is allowed to be a Monsterhearts character. Logan is borderline eligible, depending on who's writing and drawing him at the time. Everyone else is not allowed to be Monsterhearts characters.
Just so we're clear.
I think that "you have some power and everyone will hate and fear you if they find out" is not a niche for the Mutant; that's the basis for every single character type, with the exception of the Mortal, who is "you have some dangerous friends and everyone will hate and shun you if they find out."
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Alien, Angel, Chosen, Demon, Elemental, Fae, Ghost, Ghoul, Homunculus, Lich, Monster, Mortal, Mutant, Possessed, Sorcerer, Vampire, Werewolf, Witch, Wraith....whoa. In another breath it's ready to go Elf, Troll, Gnome, Kinder.
How many do you want to have, Joe, and how many make a enough? I'd be looking for a set list to build the game with pretty fast. Looking at AW, there's a lot of room in each splat for variation in characters. From the list above, I see a few that seem to be within reasonable variance from one another, thus:
Fae (elemental, angel - something mercurial and distant and unknowable)
Ghoul (homunculus, litch - something not quite alive, not quite human)
Vampire
Werewolf
Witch (sorcerer)
Ghost (alien, demon, wraith - something otherworldly, with connections here)
Mortal (chosen, possessed, mutant - human, but maybe that's not the whole story)
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Hey,
Margolotte. I dunno how many exactly. Somewhere around the same amount as AW has? 8-12, say.
I love how you grouped Fae/Elemental/Angel, Ghoul/Homunculus/Lich, and then gave both groupings a sweet little line to tie them together. Nice work.
I think my current list is:
Fae
Ghoul
Vampire
Werewolf
Witch
Ghost
Infernal
Hive Queen
Mortal
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I think my current list is:
Fae
Ghoul
Vampire
Werewolf
Witch
Ghost
Infernal
Hive Queen
Mortal
Hive Queen sticks out here. That's a role, not a type. I mean, you could easily be an Infernal Hive Queen, right? It seems like a thing a character does, not a thing a character is.
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Hey Adam,
Let me unpack where I'm going with that one.
I am imagining a breeder-monster. You have a swarm that you are in control of - rats, bees, people you've infected, psychic reflections of yourself, etc. You make little broodlings, and you can utilize them.
The spider queen. The termite queen. Etc.
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So, Hive Queen.
Cool things:
-infection
-symbiotism
-drones
-disgusting body horror
-hatchlings
I'm not sure that it's in-genre enough, though. Gah.
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I... agree? The hive queen sounds very cool in and of itself, but I have trouble imagining it in a teenage drama. Teenage slasher/horror maybe, but romantic entanglements? I dunno.
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I... agree? The hive queen sounds very cool in and of itself, but I have trouble imagining it in a teenage drama. Teenage slasher/horror maybe, but romantic entanglements? I dunno.
It's clearly a metaphor for getting pregnant, yeah?
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It's clearly a metaphor for getting pregnant, yeah?
I don't think it is. Alien chestbursters might be a metaphor for pregnancy. But a "queen" creature that controls hordes of smaller critters and can order them to do her awful bidding? How is that a metaphor for pregnancy? There's a difference between monsters that implant/impregnate things with their spawn and monsters that control/breed hordes of spawn.
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Hi. If you allow me I'll add some suggestions and comments:
1- I don't really love your definition of Ghost as demon, angel, and so on. It does not seem to fit what you'd usually call a ghost. Otherwolder sounds cool, maybe it includes people that come from another plane of existence (Heaven, Hell, the Faery World...)
2- Revenant: a kid who died or was killed but he left something unfinished, so he came back from the other side and dug his way up the grave to avenge the dead of his girlfriend or family or whatever (think like the teen Crow).
3- I am also not a big fan of the alien, it seems to break the world too much.
4- Homunculus: I don't know what do you mean by that one, but it sounds to me like some sort of puppet or automaton or empty shell with no soul, so he cannot love. Seems like totally anti-genre, but maybe it's possible to pull it off like the Tin-man or Data, trying to understand feelings or to discover the meaning of love.
5- The Harry Potter-ish style of Wizard? Or is it covered by the witch? Or I'm going totally off-genre here?
6- Ghoul: how would that one work? Maybe it's some kind of cannibalistic feral kid who lives in the wilderness?
7- The costumed superhero does not fit the genre, but maybe something like in Heroes? There were some elements of teen drama in the series, like the cheerleader hero and her boyfriend, and the Mexican siblings. They could be like kids who are born with psychic powers and the government seeks them to experiment with them, so they must remain in the dark and they are drawn to each other for protection. I would avoid the word mutants, which points directly to X-men in my mind, with all the wrong kinds of associations. An example would be the girlfriend of Hellboy in the movies, who has this pyrokinetic powers but she must always restrain herself or elsewhere she will blow the place up (until she finally accepts that she is different and starts to learn how to control it).
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Fair enough. Hive Queen is out. I might try to slide something like The Infected in at some point, but we'll see.
Let's talk about what the Skins we like do!
Fae make promises and create beauty, and when betrayed they gain terrible power. Keep a fae happy, keep yourself safe. Keeping a fae happy naturally includes handing them your power, so the relationship gets more and more imbalanced until you're willing you escape it, no matter the consequences.
Ghosts channel their past traumas into deadly weapons. Their existence depends on them constantly having unfinished business. When they are their Darkest Selves, they are invisible. They have a messy co-dependency with their past.
Mortals have only one card, and it's the victim card. Fortunately, they know how to play it in a million ways. Being a Mortal is all about meeting your needs through sacrifice - letting others have their way with you, and leveraging that in order to get what you want.
Werewolves are all about walking as close to the fire as possible, trying not to get burned. Werewolves have hungers, which are physical things they want, bad. They get a bonus to trying to seize them. At their Darkest Selves, they must attempt to kill or maim everything that stands in the way of their hungers.
Infernal are all about walking as close to the fire as possible, too. Except, they aren't playing with rage, they're playing with debt. Infernals can go into debt in a bad way, debts owed to the devil, or the stars, or the demon living inside their heads. Whatever. At their Darkest Selves, they aren't themselves. They're someone else, coming to demand repayment.
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2- Revenant: a kid who died or was killed but he left something unfinished, so he came back from the other side and dug his way up the grave to avenge the dead of his girlfriend or family or whatever (think like the teen Crow).
Hey Maxwell,
This is exactly what the Ghost is all about, in my mind: unfinished business, a tormented past, wanting to leave it all behind but also drawing its power from it.
So this thing you're calling Revenant, it's already in the game, and I am calling it Ghost.
5- The Harry Potter-ish style of Wizard? Or is it covered by the witch? Or I'm going totally off-genre here?
Hm. I think that Harry Potter is kind of one-foot-in-genre. If you wanted to play a character from Harry Potter, I'd pass you the Mortal and the Witch, and ask you which you preferred.
3- I am also not a big fan of the alien, it seems to break the world too much.
Yep. It's out.
Fae, Ghost and Infernal are all going to offer a touch of the otherworldly, though. How do you feel about that? Good balance? Too "non-earth"-y?
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Man, I think all five of those rock. I think. I still feel kind of iffy about a character who's whole gig is being the victim. But I guess you'll find out how well it works or doesn't when you actually play the game.
Got a question for you about the mortal: do you think the game is going to NEED a PC to play a mortal, or will it fly just fine if the only mortals are NPCs?
I'm also not sure I'm feeling the ghost going super-invisible and unnoticeable in it's darkest self. But... it could work. If the ghost is struggling to stay relevant after passing from the world, being completely unable to be noticed would certainly be a pain. But it also seems like it would just cut the player off from the action rather than, like many of the other darkest selves, forcing the player to REALLY engage in ways he may or may not like.
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Personally, I think that the human characters in this genre are the most interesting and diverse crowd of all. You have your victims, but you also get lots of other interesting sorts; early Buffy (before it got all gonzo) is full of, basically, just vampires and humans that have to deal with vampires, all handling it in different ways.
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Man, I think all five of those rock. I think. I still feel kind of iffy about a character who's whole gig is being the victim. But I guess you'll find out how well it works or doesn't when you actually play the game.
Got a question for you about the mortal: do you think the game is going to NEED a PC to play a mortal, or will it fly just fine if the only mortals are NPCs?
With the mortal: trust me. I know what I'm doing here.
When you are The Mortal, you draw fire. You are the go-to victim. You have moves that draw others towards that big red target that you are.
Why is that awesome? Because now you've got them right where you want them. Granted, it's a fucked up place to want them. But you've got 'em, now. What next?
The Mortal has a lot of potential. You always have the opportunity to be one step ahead of the other person. Just, the first step is getting hurt. Always.
I'm also not sure I'm feeling the ghost going super-invisible and unnoticeable in it's darkest self. But... it could work. If the ghost is struggling to stay relevant after passing from the world, being completely unable to be noticed would certainly be a pain. But it also seems like it would just cut the player off from the action rather than, like many of the other darkest selves, forcing the player to REALLY engage in ways he may or may not like.
See, that's just it. What does a ghost fear most? What is the scariest possible thing for a ghost?
To stop existing.
I think that you're right, though, the Ghost needs some shit to do while at their Darkest. I think that there needs to be some mechanical prompt to seek & to sacrifice. Maybe? Thoughts?
Personally, I think that the human characters in this genre are the most interesting and diverse crowd of all. You have your victims, but you also get lots of other interesting sorts; early Buffy (before it got all gonzo) is full of, basically, just vampires and humans that have to deal with vampires, all handling it in different ways.
Hey Shreyas,
Cool.
I was originally toying with the idea of having a Mortal (victim extraordinaire) and Chosen (destined for greatness, heir to a powerful lineage, the slayer, etc). Mortal being Bella, Chosen being Buffy.
The Chosen would be all about expectation management, probably? Or about borrowing trust from others?
What do you think?
Right direction?
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Joe: great, I completely agree with your comments and think your descriptions of the skins are great and inspiring.
Since you ask, I have mixed feelings about the otherworlders...
(Disclaimer: I'm just tossing ideas here blindly.)
1- The Angel/Demon/Infernal kind: one problem is they come from the gawd and you are messing with religious stuff here, which might be touchy for some. Also they are immortal, unkillable spiritual beings with powers beyond our comprehension, so yeah. Still using them has some appeal, and I can see some ways in which we could pull them off:
a) Fallen angel/Outcast demon: maybe a young or lesser angel or demon who messed up and "lose his wings" (losing most of his powers) and was thrown, wounded, to the mortal world to fix things or to redeem himself.
b) Incubi and Succubi: if we have demons we totally must have those! Their whole point is sexual shenanigans.
c) I will never admit liking the TV series "Charmed", but I've seen a couple of episodes and they have this sort of angels they call "White Lights" who are like healers and guides, and they have demons and all. They manage to pull it off somehow. Any thoughts on those?
d) Your description of the infernals would work. If I understand correctly, they seem to me to be mortals who made a pact with the devil and gained some power or something they wanted, but in exchange they became damned and must keep repaying him forever?
2- Fae : your description of the fae is really interesting, but I still don't quite "see" them. Do they have pointy ears? Are they shapeshifting? What are they doing here? Maybe they are like mischievous foolish playful beings, whose motivations we cannot understand, like leprechauns or pixies?
Also now when looking at what I wrote above, it seems like most of the themes I can figure out for this otherworlders are rather adult themes, slightly off the genre. Maybe some of them would be great as antagonists or as mentors/guides/oracles, people who understand much more of the world or are beyond or ahead of the characters. They could represent the "cool adult" archetype (i.e.: normal adults are represented by the vanilla mortals, a gray mass in the background who don't understand us, but there are a few cool adults who understand us and can teach us things that we actually want to know and who are great to be around).
One problem I have right now when thinking about this stuff is I cannot recall any of this kind of characters from the teen drama media, so maybe if we could refer to some example material we could figure them out?
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More ideas:
Regarding the Mortals: How about another kind of mortal who is a Hunter? He either comes from a family of hunters, or his family was all slayed by a vampire/werewolf/whatever and he wants to kill them all as revenge. Of course, eventually he will fall in love with a character of the kind he is hunting.
Regarding the Darkest Ghost: Instead of fading away, maybe his soul starts to depart his body and he starts behaving like a mindless zombie or a robot. I think this character could appeal a lot to the goth kids and the "the Crow" fans, so we should try to think of some way they'd like to angst.
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1- The Angel/Demon/Infernal kind: one problem is they come from the gawd and you are messing with religious stuff here, which might be touchy for some. Also they are immortal, unkillable spiritual beings with powers beyond our comprehension, so yeah. Still using them has some appeal, and I can see some ways in which we could pull them off:
a) Fallen angel/Outcast demon: maybe a young or lesser angel or demon who messed up and "lose his wings" (losing most of his powers) and was thrown, wounded, to the mortal world to fix things or to redeem himself.
Thanks, Maxwell!
I am totally cool with messing with religious stuff. Teenage monsters engaging in dangerous sexual behavior is already touchy territory.
I don't see Infernals as being immortal, unkillable beings. Just like the other Skins, you can stab them until they die.
I am imagining Infernals could be demons themselves, mortals who've dealt with the devil, cultists paying tribute to Cthulhu, or fallen angels.
Fallen angels & outcast demons trying to reprove themselves to their all-powerful masters is a PERFECT background for an Infernal.
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Hey, I do trust (mostly) what you say about the Mortal. You didn't touch on the other part of my question though: if the Mortal is such a kickass victim and is drawing everyone's fire, is it problematic if none of the players chooses the Mortal playbook?
Maybe it isn't at all, but it sounds like the presence or absence of a Mortal PC would change the feel of the game a LOT.
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Thanks, Maxwell!
No problem! I'm having a lot of fun tossing ideas around.
By the way, on my last comment about the Ghost I was thinking more of a reventant/the Crow style of ghost, but if we are talking about the incorporeal kind (Casper), I change my suggestion to: he cannot stand the presence of the living and he becomes mad and wants to push everyone away, so he starts behaving like in Poltergeist: breaking shit up, throwing knives at people, and so on.
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Maybe when the Ghost pulls away from the world, he can still affect it, but only in vague, violent, lashing-out type ways.
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Maybe when the Ghost pulls away from the world, he can still affect it, but only in vague, violent, lashing-out type ways.
Yeah. That sounds about right.
I've seen plenty of characters be invisible in games and still have stuff to do. If the Darkest Ghost is invisible (and inaudible?) and all they can do is violent poltergeistey stuff (and still needs to be noticed/appreciated) that's pretty cool.
Also, are you suggesting that the Mortal's "victim behaviour" means they're holding more Strings than anyone else? That seems pretty in genre to me, the mortal being the focus of attention for all the other major character and using that as leverage.
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Also, are you suggesting that the Mortal's "victim behaviour" means they're holding more Strings than anyone else? That seems pretty in genre to me, the mortal being the focus of attention for all the other major character and using that as leverage.
I don't want it to be so cut-and-dried that The Mortal just straight up has a lot of Strings on everyone.
Rather, I want The Mortal to have lots of Strings if she plays her cards right and treats herself as something to be fought over and won. I want the Fae to have lots of Strings if he demands promises and holds people to them.
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Yeah, that's more like what I was thinking of. That their one schtick (getting others to fight over them) generates strings efficently, not that they just get a bunch of strings for free.
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Maybe when the Ghost pulls away from the world, he can still affect it, but only in vague, violent, lashing-out type ways.
This is exactly what I took away from the skin description -- it never occured to me that the ghost being invisible would interfere with her ability to mess things up. In fact my assumption was that the invisible ghost would be terrifyingly effective at messing with other people... after all, nobody can see them.
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So, is this your working list? Just looking to keep up, and if the list is squared away, our comments can be more constructive.
Fae - as below
Ghoul- ?
Ghost - as below
Infernal - as below
Mortal - as below
Vampire - ?
Werewolf - as below
Witch - ?
Fae make promises and create beauty, and when betrayed they gain terrible power. Keep a fae happy, keep yourself safe. Keeping a fae happy naturally includes handing them your power, so the relationship gets more and more imbalanced until you're willing you escape it, no matter the consequences.
Ghosts channel their past traumas into deadly weapons. Their existence depends on them constantly having unfinished business. When they are their Darkest Selves, they are invisible. They have a messy co-dependency with their past.
Infernal are all about walking as close to the fire as possible, too. Except, they aren't playing with rage, they're playing with debt. Infernals can go into debt in a bad way, debts owed to the devil, or the stars, or the demon living inside their heads. Whatever. At their Darkest Selves, they aren't themselves. They're someone else, coming to demand repayment.
Mortals have only one card, and it's the victim card. Fortunately, they know how to play it in a million ways. Being a Mortal is all about meeting your needs through sacrifice - letting others have their way with you, and leveraging that in order to get what you want.
Werewolves are all about walking as close to the fire as possible, trying not to get burned. Werewolves have hungers, which are physical things they want, bad. They get a bonus to trying to seize them. At their Darkest Selves, they must attempt to kill or maim everything that stands in the way of their hungers.
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The list ain't set, yet.
Vampire and Witch are going to be included. I just haven't nailed down their "spark" yet. I invite you to! Any of you!
Ghoul (the sexy makeover that "zombie" has wanted for a long time) is something I want in the game, but it's not *definite* yet.
And I'd love more.
So: jump in. Name names. Describe descriptions. Pull me in. Give me some meat to tenderize. Whatever you want!
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Fae make promises and create beauty, and when betrayed they gain terrible power. Keep a fae happy, keep yourself safe. Keeping a fae happy naturally includes handing them your power, so the relationship gets more and more imbalanced until you're willing you escape it, no matter the consequences.
Ghosts channel their past traumas into deadly weapons. Their existence depends on them constantly having unfinished business. When they are their Darkest Selves, they are invisible. They have a messy co-dependency with their past.
Mortals have only one card, and it's the victim card. Fortunately, they know how to play it in a million ways. Being a Mortal is all about meeting your needs through sacrifice - letting others have their way with you, and leveraging that in order to get what you want.
Werewolves are all about walking as close to the fire as possible, trying not to get burned. Werewolves have hungers, which are physical things they want, bad. They get a bonus to trying to seize them. At their Darkest Selves, they must attempt to kill or maim everything that stands in the way of their hungers.
Infernals are all about walking as close to the fire as possible, too. Except, they aren't playing with rage, they're playing with debt. Infernals can go into debt in a bad way, debts owed to the devil, or the stars, or the demon living inside their heads. Whatever. At their Darkest Selves, they aren't themselves. They're someone else, coming to demand repayment.
Ghouls are beyond the realm of the living. Unlike the Ghost, there is no unfinished business. They are the living dead - gaunt, pallid, beautiful in their distance. Ghouls are good at heartless manipulation, severing ties, and they possess some cool beyond-the-grave powers.
Vampires are all about manipulation, seduction and insincerity. Their two strongest stats are Hot and Cold, and they are well served by jumping back and forth between them. Unlike Ghouls, Vampires have no motivation to sever ties, even when those ties are temporarily working against them.
Witches are all about wielding dark magick, manipulating from afar, and interfering with other relationships. If you like the idea of pitting your friends against each other, putting nightmares into peoples' heads, and wyrd magick, then you're probably a witch waiting to happen.
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Ghoul feels really out of place to me -- maybe just because it doesn't have the same iconic status as the others. Also the name makes me think that they are all about eating the flesh of the living, not remaining aloof and distant? To my mind, vampires already cover the whole 'undead and sexy' thing pretty thoroughly -- if there's another kind of undead thing, it needs a new angle or it ends up feeling like an also-Vampire. If they're a zombie-remake the blurb should at least mention the overwhelming hunger, right?
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Ghouls should be about hunger. Drugs, or food, or flesh, or brains, or excess, or denial.
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Yeah,
I'm struggling with Ghoul a bit. I might need to scrap it, even though I like the concept a lot.
While Vampire is seductive and manipulative, Ghoul is cold and disconcerting. Vampire's best stats are probably Hot and Cold, but Ghoul's are Cold and Dark.
I think part of the reason I love the idea of Ghoul so much is that I have a really amazing move for them. So maybe I should just put that move out into the open, thereby getting it out of my system:
Short Rest for the Wicked
When you die, wait it out. After twelve hours, you wake up somewhere else (MC - make a hard move, here). You wake up hungry.
While we're on the subject of Skins - does anybody have any others to contribute?
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If they're a zombie-remake the blurb should at least mention the overwhelming hunger, right?
Ghouls should be about hunger. Drugs, or food, or flesh, or brains, or excess, or denial.
Alright. Overwhelmingly clear feedback.
Ghouls are distant, disconcerting & hungry.
They have all the "I need what I want, I'm hungry" that werewolves have, and all the blackness of heart that vampires have.
An endless hunger, in the belly of a calculating monster.
The Ghoul.
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Ghouls wake up hungry and go to sleep hungry. It's the only feeling that managed to make it through the afterlife and back. Everything else is gone.
Ghouls are gaunt and unnatural, beautiful in their disinterest. They're cold in demeanor and appearance. Their nerves are dull, their hearts are rotten, and their bellies are eternally wanting.
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They sound pretty awful. Kind of worse than everyone else. I'd love it if there were room to be Gwen from I, Zombie - jaded but well-meaning. Or I guess there is room to play on the light end of all these skins, and your summaries are the extreme case of the archetype?
(Oh yeah, that reminds me: a frequent ghoul thing is to access someone's power/memories by eating their flesh/brain. I, Zombie is shaping up to maybe be great.)
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I like Ghoul with the hunger and all, and the teen tie-in I see is the cool, beautiful, calculating, driven cheerleader. She's doing it for herself, not for 'school spirit', and no matter how much she eats, she stays bone thin and pageant perfect. She wants. To win, to overpower, to feed her need. But if she doesn't, she doesn't care at all, and all are nothing to her.
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Amazing, Margolotte.
I totally see it, and at the same time... that is totally not the Ghoul I was going to play.
I was going to play the gaunt, distant kid who listens to The Smiths and wears too much black and is fucking his system up with crazy drugs because, like, who fucking cares anyways. And has this cold disinterested glamour to him, but also this insatiable hunger.
In essence, I was envisioning the boys I wanted to sleep with when I was in high school. It's amazing that you saw such a different vision - also, really cool. It means the Ghoul has legs.
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Hey, if both visions are viable, that rocks.
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So, I think you are perfectly capturing a game I have been trying unsuccessfully to design for a few years now.
What skin do you think Jason Voorhees would be?
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So, I think you are perfectly capturing a game I have been trying unsuccessfully to design for a few years now.
What skin do you think Jason Voorhees would be?
See, I've been thinking about this for a few days, after watching Freddy vs. Jason (the only Friday the 13th-related movie that the rental place still had in last Friday).
So, slasher guys don't exactly fit into Monsterhearts as is. They need some re-conceptualization. But Jason Voorhees, re-imagined as a horny teen looking for love? Yeah, we can work with that.
Jason Voorhees is either a Ghoul (hunger: chaos, all-consuming: at night), or an Infernal (dread benefactor: his dead mother).
Michael Meyers is a Ghost.
Freddy Krueger is a Witch, or a [secret Skin that I'm working on in secret and not telling people about].
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Infernal works.
So the concept is exclusively horny teens looking for love? Not monsters looking for love, period? Because Jason is an exception amongst the slashers. The movies really wash over this which I think does the character a disservice, but Jason is pretty clearly seeking the love and approval of his mother.
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So the concept is exclusively horny teens looking for love? Not monsters looking for love, period? Because Jason is an exception amongst the slashers. The movies really wash over this which I think does the character a disservice, but Jason is pretty clearly seeking the love and approval of his mother.
Okay, so, with this interpretation/understanding of Jason, he becomes a much more viable character for Monsterhearts.
My concern is that he's got a very static relationship with the rest of the world. He kills, he gets killed, end movie.
Now, if Jason were to have a love/hate relationship with another monstrous killer (say, Michael the Ghost), and were to spend more time trying to communicate with mother, and were to have a born-through-blood connection to the final girl (who subsequently becomes a fucked-up accomplice, but she's in love with him now, but he isn't in love with her due to his mommy issues, so they have this ugly emotional standoff)... then we'd be in business.
In short, Jason needs to be manipulable, by the people at the table - emotionally, sexually, physically.
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Awesome. That sounds great.
So you couldn't really play a solitary monster then. They need to be pretty socially enmeshed?
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Can I play a teenage Dexter (as he is in the TV series rather than the novels) in Monsterhearts?
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Can I play a teenage Dexter (as he is in the TV series rather than the novels) in Monsterhearts?
Jason is an exception amongst the slashers. The movies really wash over this which I think does the character a disservice, but Jason is pretty clearly seeking the love and approval of his mother.
So, one option that's emerging is the possibility of a Slasher skin.
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Possibly. I mean there's definitely room for them here, but maybe as whatever the Monsterhearts equivalent is of Threats.
Slashers are humans that exemplify monstosity. When I think of horror movie slashers (excluding supernatural ones like Freddy) they channel inhumanity like a superpower. Michael Myers and Jason both gain this immortality as they become more monstrous than any of the skins I see here.
On every occasion in the movies, if the slasher drifts back towards humanity it makes them vulnerable. One of the early Friday the 13th movies has a good example of this when a girl pretends to be Jason's mother and he falls to his knees in front of her. She takes advantage of this by slamming a machete into him. Similarly with the Halloween remake, at one point there is the possibility that Michael is chasing his sister because she's the only family he has left, and there's this part of him that loves her. Then she stabs or shoots him or something.
It makes me think of slashers like some sort of weird shaman, giving up humanity in favor of monstrosity for powers. However, as they're not monsters the standard they need to maintain is even greater. Otherwise they bleed again.
Apart from a complete retooling of slashers like you did above with Jason, I don't think they conform to the needs of the game. Dexter fits that model. But then he doesn't channel monstrousness, he channels a perverted sense of justice (especially after the first season).
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Yeaaaah....
Plus serial killer =/= slasher, at least in my mind.
But I'm not sure whether either has a place in Monsterhearts.
Which is why I asked. :)
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I think they totally have a place in Monsterhearts, especially with regards to "show monsters' humanity, show humans' monstrosity." It's just a matter of how they fit.
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On every occasion in the movies, if the slasher drifts back towards humanity it makes them vulnerable. One of the early Friday the 13th movies has a good example of this when a girl pretends to be Jason's mother and he falls to his knees in front of her. She takes advantage of this by slamming a machete into him. Similarly with the Halloween remake, at one point there is the possibility that Michael is chasing his sister because she's the only family he has left, and there's this part of him that loves her. Then she stabs or shoots him or something.
Hellraiser 2. The girl reminds the cenobites of their humanity, they turn on the doctor-turned-cenobite, and get stone-cold-murdered (but buying said girl enough time to temporarily escape).
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One more thing, as soon as you have a playable versions of the Skins, I will play this. It might be a one-player game though and I don't know if that works with your rules (but I think it does).
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Well, The Infernal, The Ghoul and The Fay are ready to rock. The Fay needs a stat-block still - just make it up.