Barf Forth Apocalyptica
powered by the apocalypse => Monsterhearts => Topic started by: mcdaldno on July 16, 2010, 05:01:21 PM
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I am messing about with two different Apocalypse World hacks. One is Twilight-inspired. Here is everything I have so far:
PITCH
a story about people and monsters, playing with one another's hearts and bodies.
MOVES
When you try to win someone's heart...
Roll +sway. On 10+, you win their heart and gain 3 Strings. On a 7-9, the MC will ask for a sacrifice. Make it, and you'll win their heart and gain 1 String. On a miss, they are betrothed to another.
PLAYBOOKS
Instead of just picking a class, you pick two elements.
The first is your whether you're a Werewolf, Vampire, Witch, Mortal or Marked. or, like, something like that.
The second is whether you're Vicious, Protective, Abstaining, Desperate, or whatever.
The first contains your moves. The second contains your sex move. Sex moves are probably not "when you have sex", but "when you do this particular sexual thing", like abstaining or tempting or taking or throwing yourself at someone.
That's all I got so far. Hot monsters getting emotionally entrenched and then hurting each other like woah.
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The only way I can possibly support this is if I try very hard to pretend it is not Twilight inspired.
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do this
yes
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I'm not too sure about the "When you try to win someone's heart...", it seems too neat and simple for something I think would be central to the game. Then again, I dunno.
Is sway hard to get? Maybe that factors in.
But, still, interesting. I'd like to see where this goes.
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First of all, I've come up with a title:
Monsterhearts
...wherein teenagers and monsters play with one another's hearts and bodies.
Shreyas: I am going to do this.
At first, it was a cute idea. Shit got real, though.
Fnord3125/Brian: Fuck you, this is a Twilight game. It's also inspired by all the other "teenagers are also monsters" stuff: Ginger Snaps, Christopher Pike's teen monster novels, etc, etc. Buffy as well.
Antisinecurist: Well, that's only half the move, really. Sway are then spent on particular things, like holds are in Apocalypse World.
Also, though, I was thinking: Instead of Hx, you can +/- the unspent strings you have on someone to help/interfere with them. Whoever has the most unspent strings held against you gets to highlight your stat.
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Hey, go nuts, Joe. I wouldn't stop you even if I could. I feel that the Twilight books are pretty f'ing terrible, but I have no doubt at all in my mind that your hack based on them will be f'ing awesome. So rock on.
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With the new title and broader source list, I'm liking this idea so much more.
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As I've told Joe before, this hack needs a move where you build up sway by treating someone badly, then use that as a bonus when you declare that you're actually in love with them.
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Can we agree that Twilight and Buffy are polar opposites? Yeah? Okay, then I'm in, too.
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Joe, shame on you! You are making that terribly-cliched rookie AW-hacker mistake that is all too common amongst rookie AW-hackers!
That's a scene-level move.
So, what, you just waltz in, bat your pretty lashes and pout, and BAM! Three strings, her heart is all yours, do what you will? No, no, no! When does that EVER happen to a PC in your source fiction?
You have to build it up one move and one string at a time. Like this:
When you try to win someone's heart, demonstrate your interest and roll+sway*
6 or less: You are disgusting! Eww, you creepy stalker!
7-9: You can get one string if you live up to it.
10+: You get one string, even if you ARE a creepy stalker!
So probably you have to live up to it, which might be another roll. But once you get that one string, you can use it to maneuver your lover-to-be into a situation where you get a bonus! And you tie another string to her heart, and then another, and another.
Maybe on a 12+ you can get two strings, but really 3 is too much. Unless maybe there are a bunch of easy ways that you can get rid of strings.
And if you really, really think 1 is too few, maybe there are ways to pull on those strings without losing them, hm? Or a move where you get an extra string, because you are sooo sexxxy that you even sparkle in the sunlight!
*What are your other stats? Shimmy, Shake, and Shout it Out Loud?
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I mostly agree with Johnstone, yes.
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Also, clearly (I mean, OBvioulsy, duh!) the sex move that Buffy has, and one of them Twilightors, prolly the chick, has is this:
Monstor-Fukkarrz!
The first time you and another character have sex, they turn evil overnight! Like they are possessed by some evil demon, they totally act like an asshole and a douche and they don't like you anymore and they try to kill you! I mean, like OMGWTFCIA!?!!!1!
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What are your other stats? Shimmy, Shake, and Shout it Out Loud?
If they are, I will fully endorse this game even IF it is based on Twilight. (not that my endorsement means jack shit to anyone, but still...)
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That's a scene-level move.
Disagree.
You have to build it up one move and one string at a time. Like this:
[...]
Maybe on a 12+ you can get two strings, but really 3 is too much. Unless maybe there are a bunch of easy ways that you can get rid of strings.
Agree.
I mean, it really depends on what strings do, right? I originally imagined them being like holds, and most AW moves give you 0, 1 or 3 holds depending on how you roll.
Now, I'm seeing something different going on. Accumulating and manipulating strings is big time focal to the game.
Instead of Hx, you use your unspent strings as a bonus to help & interfere.
Instead of Hx, the person with most unspent strings highlights one of your stats.
You can spend strings to shake someone up, though I'm not sure how that works. Spend a String to: make something that they are doing count as Acting Under Fire, interfere with one of their moves even when you aren't there, carry +1 forward, make them carry -1 forward, etc.
I think there's a special move that lets you take strings against someone instead of wounding them, when you Seize By Force.
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Hey, I know we're all having some fun at Twilite's expense, but seriously, the idea of a game about how close teenagers are to monstrous, and how emotions spill us into monstrous behavior, and how attractive teenagers are to allllllll kinds of stuff, and every.damn.thing.you.think.or.say at age 16 is fraught with double entendres, that's pretty rich.
So, back to the premise:
[Y]ou're a Werewolf, Vampire, Witch, Mortal, Marked or ??
Personally, I like the notion that PCs cannot play mortals, because so much of being a teenager is about feeling abnormal. They could still pine for, fall for, and get messed up with, regular mortals, because that's part of the longing to belong, to fit in, to connect that is very real for teens. I'd add Fairy, Troll, and Wraith instead of Mortal. Marked is cool because it gets at that 'set apart' that some kids feel they have.
[Y]ou're Vicious, Protective, Abstaining, Desperate or ??
In regards to sex, right? So add in Enthusiastic, Curious, and Playful, and that about covers the bases.
The first contains your [regular] moves. The second contains your sex move. Sex moves are probably not "when you have sex", but "when you do this particular sexual thing", like abstaining or tempting or taking or throwing yourself at someone.
I'm curious about this. So if I play a Fairy-type who is Abstaining sexually, then I get a PC with a different feel than if I play a Troll-type who is Abstaining. Or Werewolf Playful. Hmmm. Yeah, I can see it, but I'd want it to be about my sexuality in general, not just "when I do this particular sexual thing", unless you can explain your ideas there a bit more?
You'd still need a whole list of moves that are basic to the fraught teen experience, natch.
Hot monsters getting emotionally entrenched and then hurting each other like woah.
Whoa, baby!
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That's a scene-level move.
Disagree.
Winning someone's heart is a result. Trying to win someone's heart is striving for a result. For this to be a move with action-level resolution, it requires you to take action, which is why I added "demonstrate you interest" in my post, btw.
But trying to win someone's heart can be combined with any of the AW basic moves, and be an additional result of that move. You can do pretty much any old thing and say you're doing it to win someone's heart. That result comes at the scene level -- you perform whatever actions, and if you are trying to win a heart, that's what the scene is about.
Same as when you go into battle and you roll+weird in order to say one person who lives and one person who dies. That's scene-level resolution.
When do you roll+sway to win someone's heart? Anytime you're doing something to win their heart? I can rack up 9 strings in one scene. Do you roll at the beginning of the scene and hold those strings for the scene? Do you roll at the end of the scene, to determine whether or not you are successful?
And if you can only roll once per scene or situation, then absolutely it's scene-level, because the whole scene revolves around that roll. What is more important than winning somebody's heart? Nuffin.
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Hey, I know we're all having some fun at Twilite's expense, but seriously, the idea of a game about how close teenagers are to monstrous, and how emotions spill us into monstrous behavior, and how attractive teenagers are to allllllll kinds of stuff, and every.damn.thing.you.think.or.say at age 16 is fraught with double entendres, that's pretty rich.
Oh, for sure. I think I've been more vocal than anyone else in this thread about hating Twilight, but there's a reason I'm following it, and that's because, yeah, while there's no way in hell I'm going to go buy a boxed set of the Twilight Saga, I think this hack sounds rockin'. Or at least it's got some super-rockin' ideas running through it.
I also think I agree with Meg's first point. If part of the idea is exploring the metaphor of teenagers=monsters, than PCs probably shouldn't be mortals. Plus, if it's mostly monsters falling in love with and fucking (in both the literal and metaphorical senses) with mortals, ensuring that PCs aren't mortals keeps PCs from being aimed directly at each other. Which is probably a good thing?
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I think there's a special move that lets you take strings against someone instead of wounding them, when you Seize By Force.
This move is called Edward, right?
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This move is called Edward, right?
Honestly, Edward doesn't Seize By Force often.
Edward denies people what they want, and makes promises he has no intention of keeping.
Abstaining Vampire.
For Edward, it's all about "Gain 1 String when you deny someone sexually."
The first contains your [regular] moves. The second contains your sex move. Sex moves are probably not "when you have sex", but "when you do this particular sexual thing", like abstaining or tempting or taking or throwing yourself at someone.
I'm curious about this. So if I play a Fairy-type who is Abstaining sexually, then I get a PC with a different feel than if I play a Troll-type who is Abstaining. Or Werewolf Playful. Hmmm. Yeah, I can see it, but I'd want it to be about my sexuality in general, not just "when I do this particular sexual thing", unless you can explain your ideas there a bit more?
I'm thinking that for Monsterhearts, the sex moves are about sexual behavior, rather than straight-up sex.
Abstaining would have "Gain 1 String whenever you deny someone sexually."
That would include pushing away when they try to kiss you, and saying, "No... I can't. I'll get too hungry. I'd put you in danger."
Vicious might have "Whenever you use Seize By Force or Threaten (Go Aggro) to meet your sexual needs, mark an experience."
Or something. I haven't figured out the specifics yet.
I also think I agree with Meg's first point. If part of the idea is exploring the metaphor of teenagers=monsters, than PCs probably shouldn't be mortals. Plus, if it's mostly monsters falling in love with and fucking (in both the literal and metaphorical senses) with mortals, ensuring that PCs aren't mortals keeps PCs from being aimed directly at each other. Which is probably a good thing?
Part of the brilliance of having a single person able to play a mortal is that you have a single person who's screaming "I'm a victim! Pick me! Pick me!"
What can Bella do? She can feel anguish, and she can love unconditionally despite bearing witness to monstrosity. That she isn't herself a monster adds something sad and wonderful to her situation.
The nothing-special mortal is a staple in the genre. It's a brilliant counterpoint character, and it creates amazingly unparallel power dynamics, which is exactly what this game needs.
And yes, the game SHOULD steer PCs into direct opposition and have them sleeping with one another and fighting with one another over the same guy, or girl. The more inter-PC drama, the better. Also, the less time is spent with a single player and the MC interacting.
Can we agree that Twilight and Buffy are polar opposites? Yeah? Okay, then I'm in, too.
Can we agree that Twilight and Buffy are in the same genre?
That genre being supernatural teen sex drama.
How are they so polar and opposite?
I mean, Buffy has agency and friends and purpose.
Bella is a puppet for expressing dysfunctional longing.
Is that how?
Otherwise, they have a lot of the same things going on, including friends who don't understand, sexually abstaining vampire boyfriends, emotionally unstable vampire boyfriends, and spooky monster cameos.
I don't disagree, but I do want to know what exactly you mean.
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There's a dedicated forum for Monsterhearts. Let's migrate there.
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Want me to move this thread?
-Vincent
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And yes, the game SHOULD steer PCs into direct opposition and have them sleeping with one another and fighting with one another over the same guy, or girl. The more inter-PC drama, the better. Also, the less time is spent with a single player and the MC interacting.
Well, sure, I agree that two PCs fighting over the same guy or girl would be great, I'm just questioning whether you want two PCs fighting over another PC. But if you think that's needed here, then go for it. I bow to your superior experience with both the genre and game design.
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Abstaining Vampire.
For Edward, it's all about "Gain 1 String when you deny someone sexually."
I dunno man, sounds like bullshit to me. If he's the only one driving the abstinence, why hasn't she fucked the werewolf dude? I think the dudes get to mark experience when she wants them, so they can defeat the other vampires etc, but they've seen Buffy so they know what happens if they go all the way.
Also, you're probably right that it might be better to get some feedback on your mechanics from somebody who actually knows anything at all about the source material, or has seen a full episode of Buffy at the every least, but it seems they just want to tell you to stop watching Twilight.
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Take it to the Monsterhearts forum!
I'm locking the thread meanwhile, just to boot you guys over there.
-Vincent