Barf Forth Apocalyptica
powered by the apocalypse => Monsterhearts => Topic started by: mcdaldno on November 09, 2010, 03:02:27 AM
-
Check this out: Monsterhearts (http://joepub.fileave.com/monsterhearts.pdf).
Feedback is lovely.
-
Oh, Joe. I *heart* your stuff.
-
More:
I feel like I can run a game of Monsterhearts after reading this.
I think I'll need to talk through creating Fires after the first session.
I'd definitely like to get a look at the Mortal playbook before running the first session.
It's good stuff, man.
-
Finished reading your draft. Really nice, Joe.
Yeah, I'd totally want to play a mortal Giles-like guy.
I assume you've seen Donnie Darko? I don't know if it's an influence for you, but that's one vibe I might try to bring to a table playing Monsterhearts.
Oskar and Eli in Let the Right One In are only 12 (well, sort of 12 in the case of Eli) but that movie has a lot of the same themes you're playing with.
One nit: I don't think all of the media in your "the genre" can be put in such a large shoebox. I'd suggest "media influences," same as Apocalypse World.
Really like to play this but don't know if I'll have room soon.
-
I assume you've seen Donnie Darko? I don't know if it's an influence for you, but that's one vibe I might try to bring to a table playing Monsterhearts.
Totally. I forgot to list Donny Darko!
Donny is one of the inspirations for a Skin that I haven't told anyone about yet. This unspoken Skin is an equal mixture of: Donny Darko, Freddy Kruger, Sookie Stackhouse.
Oskar and Eli in Let the Right One In are only 12 (well, sort of 12 in the case of Eli) but that movie has a lot of the same themes you're playing with.
Totally! I forgot to list Let the Right One In.
Let the Right One In is a good demonstration of how the game changes when you use younger protagonists. It is super vulnerable, disturbing and transgressive. I might also list the movie Tideland, in the final version, for just that reason.
I'd definitely like to get a look at the Mortal playbook before running the first session.
Yeah, I'm going to try to complete the Mortal and Werewolf over the next week, as those are essential. The Ghost and a couple as-yet-unrevealed Skins will be coming shortly after that.
I feel like I can run a game of Monsterhearts after reading this.
Awesome!
There's actually one big rules gap that I've noticed since releasing that, which is that there's no advice on how to handle Strings on NPCs and NPCs having Strings on PCs. So... that'll come, shortly.
-
Can you spend more than one String at once on the same effect?
Like, can I spend 2-strings to do +2harm?
-
A couple of suggestions occured to me while I was reading through:
1.
The process of turning the characters' initial Strings (Hx) into backstory for the game could be an official part of the first session. One way of doing this is to have a good discussion about it before starting play; another way would be to have flashbacks between different characters when the time felt right.
Strings and backstory feel really important to Monsterhearts.
2.
In the 'Fires' section, it might be worth putting in a reminder that the MC can use the characters' origins (that they selected in their playbooks) as inspiration for fires.
-
Can you spend more than one String at once on the same effect?
Like, can I spend 2-strings to do +2harm?
Good question. No, you can't.
1.
The process of turning the characters' initial Strings (Hx) into backstory for the game could be an official part of the first session. One way of doing this is to have a good discussion about it before starting play; another way would be to have flashbacks between different characters when the time felt right.
Strings and backstory feel really important to Monsterhearts.
Neat idea, to establish them throughout play. I'll have to ruminate on this idea further, but my initial reaction is, "Sweet! Do it, and tell me how it goes!"
Interestingly, your backstory is a simple idea that I tacked on while I was laying out the character pages. I thought to myself, "Gee, characters don't really have enough stuff to them, do they? Maybe I'll put in a thing so that they start with some Strings."
2. In the 'Fires' section, it might be worth putting in a reminder that the MC can use the characters' origins (that they selected in their playbooks) as inspiration for fires.
Good idea.
I'm still waffling on how Fires work, and wants/means work. You'll probably note that it doesn't seem to gel/coalesce like the rest of the game does.
Figuring out how Threats work in this game is my stumbling block, f'sure.
That said: your idea is brilliant, and that's a big part of why origins are in the game.
-
Cool: I'll try playing out bits of the backstories and origins when I run this. I figure it'll be like Vincent's advice in Apocalypse World: sometimes it'll feel right to ask questions about it, and sometimes it'll feel like there's a deeper fish down there waiting to be caught so the best thing to do is back off and let things develop for a little while longer.
Still on Strings, I wondered whether there might be some benefit in having a few alternatives to choose from in each Playbook. For instance, the Vampire might have "Someone offered themselves" and "You attacked someone". Choosing between alternatives could give a little bit of variety to the backstories.
(Also, a phrasing suggestion: you *take* Strings from someone; you *give* one of your Strings to someone. Sometimes the rules use 'gain', which I found a little ambiguous.)
Fires
Do Fires have countdown clocks, do you think?
Also, I don't know much about designing threat types; would 'Accuser' (like someone who reveals your secrets) be a Threat type? Would there always be a 'Family' fire for each character (Buffy's Mum, Tara's mum, Sam and Dean's dad)?
I think it would be great if you wanted to work through statting up another less-plot heavy Fire - perhaps the 'dysfunctional relationship that's hurting both its participants' that you mention in the rules.
Anyway, I think that's all my initial thoughts on the rules. This is shaping up really well!
-
Fires
Do Fires have countdown clocks, do you think?
Also, I don't know much about designing threat types; would 'Accuser' (like someone who reveals your secrets) be a Threat type? Would there always be a 'Family' fire for each character (Buffy's Mum, Tara's mum, Sam and Dean's dad)?
Currently, there are no countdown clocks. Light a flame, light another, heat some coals... there are a bunch of on/off switches baked into each Fire.
Currently, there are no threat types. There's just people, with wants and means, who start Fires.
-
Looking great!
We´re playing next weekend and I have some questions.
The hexes seem really powerfull. If I put the hex "binding" on my friend The Werewolf- he can never again fight, until I take the hexe away, and he can´t do anything about it?- it seems really tough on the other player.
About the move Turn someone on- is that always about sex and love, or could it be about anything?
The move Shut someone down. - what does it mean in the fiction? That I humiliate you by telling you how stupid you look, or what?
Keep it together seems a bit hard on the 7-9. To lash out at someone could really be destructive- though I actually didn´t miss the roll. Why didn´t you keep the alternatives from Act under fire?
Strings seems cool- but I don´t get how you give strings to npc´s and how that works? Also, it´s seems strings are most fun when you have at least three players. (We are going to be MC +2 next weekend).
I havn´t really grasped fires and coal but I will read that part again and see if I get it.
I´m thinking a lot about how much the MC should keep the game about everyday situations with humans and how much the MC should introduce other monsters and stuff- and how fast? Should it be about a monster among humans or a world populated by strange beeings??
Excited!!!
/ Nils
-
I need some help in how to "make the situation unhinged". I kinda miss some of the trouble-creating stuff from AW- like the bikers gang, or the hardholders hardhold.
The witch can have a coven- that seems like a good thing.
Should I create some coals before play?
Should each characters have coals- like people the witch has already hexed, or other stuff? Seems I need something to build from- or inspiration about things to use during play.
Any ideas?
-
I can say something about the hexes.
First: "Hexes almost always wear off after a while." p. 10
Second: The werewolf can definitely do something about it, she just can't harm others. Every other avenue of action is open to her.
Third: The Witch has to get the sympathetic token in the first place, which means making moves that risk trouble for him.
So yeah, no sure thing. Should be lots of fun in play.
-
Hey Nils,
I'm going through a pretty nasty flu right now, and my head is sort of swimming. Expect some solid answers by Thursday... but to reply to a few points right now:
1.) Don't make up any Fires before play. Play to find out, in that first session. A day in the life. Explore backstories.
The hexes seem really powerfull. If I put the hex "binding" on my friend The Werewolf- he can never again fight, until I take the hexe away, and he can´t do anything about it?- it seems really tough on the other player.
So, let's take a quick look at binding: "the person cannot physically harm others."
You have to remember, this isn't really a game about physical violence. It's a game about emotional violence, and codependency, and growing up.
So, imagine you're the werewolf. You can't physically harm people anymore. And you know Sammy's a witch. It's not hard to put those two pieces of information. And it's not hard to get back at Sammy without raising a fist.
Taking the most obtuse tool out of the toolbox doesn't leave you helpless. It just forces you to start scheming.
-
Just to add to what Joe said:
If anything, that hex makes it worse for the witch or whomever is the target of violence.
I mean, sure I can come up to you in the hallway and stick you in the guts but I could hypnotize your best and only friend to. Or just make everyone hate you. Or etc.
It's handy for the witch to have at time but like both John and Joe have said, it's probably more hassle than it's really worth.
-
Gonna MC on saturday and I could really use some input on this:
About the move Turn someone on- is that always about sex and love, or could it be about anything?
The move Shut someone down. - what does it mean in the fiction? That I humiliate you by telling you how stupid you look, or what?
Keep it together seems a bit hard on the 7-9. To lash out at someone could really be destructive- though I actually didn´t miss the roll. Why didn´t you keep the alternatives from Act under fire?
by the way this swedish movie:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Show_Me_Love_%28film%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Show_Me_Love_%28film%29)
vill be the inspiration for me as MC, combined with True Blood
/ Nils
-
About the move Turn someone on- is that always about sex and love, or could it be about anything?
I think being turned on rarely has something to do with love, and usually has something to do with sex. But - just look at the effects of the move: taking Strings.
If someone's like "I pat Billy on the shoulder and I tell him that if he ever needs to talk, I'm here for him. It's turning him on," well... that sort of makes sense. Reassurance from a cool, collected peer is kind of a turn-on. And Janine getting Strings on Billy for touching him and reassuring him seems pitch perfect. It's not romantic, nor really sexual, but there's an element of turn-on there, viably.
The move Shut someone down. - what does it mean in the fiction? That I humiliate you by telling you how stupid you look, or what?
Yeah, sure.
To shut someone down means to keep someone at a distance, to insult someone, to refuse to open up to someone, to be an emotionally abusive dick, etc.
Here's a staple scenario in the genre: Awkward New Girl (ANG) has a Perfect Vampire Boyfriend (PVB). The PVB will constantly make overtures of his ecstatic love for ANG, which totally counts as turning ANG on. ANG's biggest turn-on is being told that someone notices her. So, PVB is wracking up tons of Strings on ANG because he's just. so. dreamy.
But then ANG asks PVB for a commitment, or pressures him for sex. And that's when PVB shoves her away, says, "I'm too dangerous to be with you," and then disappears for a few days. Because he's "only looking out for her best interests."
THAT'S shutting someone down.
Shutting someone down is how you weaken the control they have on your heart. Behavior that would do that will typically be on the money.
Keep it together seems a bit hard on the 7-9. To lash out at someone could really be destructive- though I actually didn´t miss the roll. Why didn´t you keep the alternatives from Act under fire?
Notice you only have to do one of those things. You can just choose to freeze up. Or you can lash out. Or you can garner suspicion, by being all "monster-y" in front of the wrong people.
That's a way more broad set of options than Act Under Fire. It is less prescriptive of your response and your actions, too.
Strings seems cool- but I don´t get how you give strings to npc´s and how that works? Also, it´s seems strings are most fun when you have at least three players. (We are going to be MC +2 next weekend).
Ah, yes. I forgot to write about this. I'm going to start another thread momentarily, to talk about NPC Strings. In short: PC's can take Strings on NPC's just like normal. The MC is supposed to have a move that goes "Have an NPC take a String on a PC."
Check the thread!
I´m thinking a lot about how much the MC should keep the game about everyday situations with humans and how much the MC should introduce other monsters and stuff- and how fast? Should it be about a monster among humans or a world populated by strange beeings??
Let's look to the agenda:
make the players’ characters’ lives not boring.
make the players’ characters feel unaccepted.
play to find out what happens.
See, there's a turning point in True Blood, where being supernatural no longer means being an outcast. There's vampires, fae, maenids, werewolves, weretigers, shifters, witches... and they all get to participate in real society.
Never get to that turning point. That violates the second agenda. These characters need to feel unaccepted, and part of how you achieve that is by keeping the number of supernatural things down. Leave them lonely.
At the same time, though, make the players' characters' lives not boring. Which means that sometimes you're going to want to bring a rival Vampire into the mix, or a Secrecy Demon, or something.
The game should primarily be about the conflicts between PCs, and the internal conflicts of each of them. Use dark supernatural threats to highlight those things. Use everything external to the PCs to highlight what's going on inside them and between them.
-
I need some help in how to "make the situation unhinged". I kinda miss some of the trouble-creating stuff from AW- like the bikers gang, or the hardholders hardhold.
The witch can have a coven- that seems like a good thing.
The situation in Monsterhearts should be far more personal and intimate than in Apocalypse World. In Monsterhearts, the trouble comes from the PCs themselves. It comes from being a teenager.
With two players, here's an easy way to make the situation unhinged:
1.) Introduce an NPC who's a clear love interest for one of the PCs.
2.) Give them some unreasonable demands. These can be mundane ("If you don't put out tonight, then what's the point?") or supernatural ("If you don't let me feed on you during sex, then what's the point?").
3.) Ask provocative questions that challenge PC decisions.
4.) Kill someone off. A parent or best friend or teacher is a good place to start.
Should I create some coals before play?
Develop Fires (both Coals and Flames) between the 1st session and the second. Centre them around big issues that apply to everyone, but target one or two PCs specifically.
If, after the first session, you post some AP... people could probably help you to create some good Flames and Coals, if you wanted.
-
Thanx for all the anwers!!!
Here´s one more...
About healing...
Do I heal one between only if I have 1 harm, or does my Harm 3 shrink to Harm 2 between sessions?
I´m thinking about "So if you are stuck at three harm..." Does it mean that the only way to heal from 3 harm is to get someone to "tenderly lick your wound"
(I think I know the answer, but it would be cool if it´s difficult to heal from 3 harm)
/ Nils
-
Hey Nils,
Healing from Harm 1 to Harm 0 is mechanically identical to healing from Harm 3 to Harm 2.
I think there's still a big push towards "tenderly licking one another's wounds" though, because it's pretty easy to get dealt 3 Harm, and unless you're getting your wounds licked by a lover, that's going to take multiple sessions to heal...
In Monsterhearts, the Harm track maxes out way quicker (on the 4th, you're dead... as opposed to in AW, where the 7th harm will kill you), and the conditions that avert death are much more limited.