Barf Forth Apocalyptica
powered by the apocalypse => Dungeon World => Topic started by: javierk on June 30, 2012, 08:55:59 PM
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Well, as the title says, i'm thinking about running Dark Sun with DW. Obviously there are a ton of things to do (Psionics, Races), but i think that it can work really well.
What do you think? Do you have any ideas? I have a few of my own, will post them when i have the time...
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I have never played Dark Sun and have nothing to offer but my encouragement. I think it would be a worthy endeavor.
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Encouragement from me too!
My advice is don't overcook the goose when planning this one. Just think about the distinctive elements of Dark Sun and check the rules cover these.
My list would be:
- Cannibal Halflings, running Elves, Tri-kreen, Mul and Half Giants. Sounds like a few race moves for the classes would cover this. (But don't go to the trouble of making rules for the giants size.)
- Psionics. I think about 10 specific psionic abilities would do it with a random assignment. If you're a purist you might want the Psionic class as well.
- Variable quality weapons. So we could add a couple of tags, like maybe flimsy, wooden or stone that make cheap weapons suck a little more. Re-flavouring the armour types down would also solve the metal problem.
- Journey's without water. The journey rules cover rations which could be refocussed to water pretty well. But we need to make water much harder to get. This plus the weapons, suggests an adjusted equipment list.
- I wouldn't go overboard on the distinctive classes. Poisoning Bards: If we hack the Thief poisoning into Bard we'd have to hack up something new for the Thief so I wouldn't bother. A quick re-write of the flavour of Clerics or Paladins could get you Templars. Addition of something "Defile the surrounding land" to the 7-9 for Cast a Spell would cover Defilers and tempt Preservers. I'd call the Gladiator a type of Fighter and call that a day.
- Tougher characters: I'd leave this as the current rules should be fine.
What else?
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Number Appearing's lumbering races (I forget the exact name and I'm mobile at the moment) can perfectly represent half-giants. I also agree that you shouldn't bother making rules for their size(no mechanics, no bonuses, no penalties), but it should definitely be fictional.
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Called them Towering Brutes.
Happy to hit people up with an advanced copy if it helps them make other hacks. Just send me a message.
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Great ideas all... i was thinking the same for bards, just giving them all the poison abilities from the thief. For weapon materials i was just thinking of adding a new choice for Hack & Slash 7-9: if your weapon isnt made of metal, it breaks.
I was thinking of giving 1 extra move (the wild talents) to every class, and make a list of them so everyone can choose... minor telekinesis, precognition etc...
Keep it up!
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So you have seen the two AW hacks of Dark Sun, right?
Dark Sol (http://apocalypse-world.com/forums/index.php?topic=72.msg327#msg327) and Dark Sol II (http://apocalypse-world.com/forums/index.php?topic=2911.msg17576#msg17576). There's certainly ideas to be found in them.
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For weapon materials i was just thinking of adding a new choice for Hack & Slash 7-9: if your weapon isnt made of metal, it breaks.
Wouldn't that be something that happens on a miss? I could easily see a tag "non-metal" with the rule: "on a miss, your weapon breaks".
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Yeah, I'd say makeshift or non-metal as a tag is easiest.
So you have seen the two AW hacks of Dark Sun, right?
Dark Sol (http://apocalypse-world.com/forums/index.php?topic=72.msg327#msg327) and Dark Sol II (http://apocalypse-world.com/forums/index.php?topic=2911.msg17576#msg17576). There's certainly ideas to be found in them.
So many good hacks. I keep forgetting to trawl the history here.
This does raise the question though, would starting with AW get closer to a non-D&D but more powerful version of Dark Sun?
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I think it's a matter of theme. If you want to underline the apocalyptic theme, start hacking AW until you get to Dark Sun. If you want to underline the fantasy theme, start with DW and add apocalyptica.
Both approaches have their strengths and weaknesses. If you start with AW, you have to basically re-iterate the whole process of DW to come up with races and classes. If you start with DW, you have to add apocalyptica. But you could follow in the footsteps of the original Dark Sun boxed set.
The design question is: what seems to be easier? Or just take AW and DW and produce their love child: Dungeon Apocalypse.
The core of the game are the playbooks. With DW, you already have those. With AW, you have to start from scratch. But AW describes the necessities of apocalypse fronts better. So, I would go with both.
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Yeah, this is what I was thinking.
Not sure you'd need to hack that much to get AW playbooks to Dark Sun. We played Space Hulk style apocalypse with zero changes to AW recently and it worked fine. The playbooks in AW are right set for 'political' Dark Sun you might just need to hack on gear and change some move names.
However, I'd probably play it with DW as Dark Sun and I have Hx I doubt I could get over.
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For weapon materials i was just thinking of adding a new choice for Hack & Slash 7-9: if your weapon isnt made of metal, it breaks.
Wouldn't that be something that happens on a miss? I could easily see a tag "non-metal" with the rule: "on a miss, your weapon breaks".
You're right, but i'd prefer the breaking of the weapon to be a choice (like DnD 4e does), than you know, missing AND breaking.
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I see. I was thinking of "weapon breaks" as part of a hard move or golden opportunity on a 6-. Maybe like this:
6-: either the GM gets a golden opportunity or your weapon breaks.
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I see. I was thinking of "weapon breaks" as part of a hard move or golden opportunity on a 6-. Maybe like this:
6-: either the GM gets a golden opportunity or your weapon breaks.
I dont see why we cant have both. Your version also keeps a choice, and i like it
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I don't think stone/wood/bone weapons and breakage needs any fiddling with the rules, just a tag. And your stone/wood/bone weapon breaking is just an easy (and encouraged) thing to invoke on a 7-9 Defy Danger or Hack & Slash result.
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Yep i think weapon breakage and preserving/defiling are good to go... What do you think about psionics? I'd like to create some wild talent moves that everyone can take, and a psion class that gets more of them and can upgrade them. Something like, from the top of my head:
Precognition
You take a moment to see the future. Roll +Wis, on 10+ hold 3. You can spend 1 to reroll any roll. On 7-9 hold 1, that you can use for a reroll, but the GM can also show you a dangerous omen.
English's not my first language, btw, so apologies in advance
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It depends on the nature of the psionics you want, right? The one you present is very mechanically interesting but not really tied to the fiction.
What about making it play with Discern Realities? Like so:
Prescient - when you Discern Realities, you can always ask "what is about to happen?" without it counting against your questions. Even on a miss, you can still ask that question.
For the other types of psionics, how about...
Telekinetic - when you move something through force of will, take 1d4 damage (ignores armor) and roll +???. On a 7-9, pick one. On a 10+, pick two.
- You can move it quickly
- You can move it precisely
- It can be heavier than you could move with your body
- You don't take damage after all
Telepath - when you speak to another with your mind, they hear you as if you spoke aloud and can reply in kind.
Biofeedback - when you will your body to conform to your vision of itself, roll +Cha (???). On a hit, choose one from the list below. On a 7-9, the process is taxing and you take -1 forward.
-Purge your body of poison, toxin, disease, or curse
-Sustain itself as though you had consumed a ration
-Heal yourself of 1d4 damage
-Make your body impervious to the elements, but you take -1 ongoing until you stop
I'm sure you could make more.
Do you want everyone to pick a "wild talent" move at 0-level? If so, you could use the concept of a compendium class to let people delve further into a specific discipline, with more potent/dedicated moves. So if you picked "telepath" as your 1st-level wild talent, you could take more dedicated telepathy moves later on (but not telekinesis moves).
Also, you could make a full-fledged class that had all the wild talents and access to all the compendium class moves. Maybe.
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Question is also how close you want to remain to the source material.
Back in 1991, when Dark Sun was published, psionics were mostly included to raise sales numbers for the Complete Psionics Handbook. Dark Sun could play well without psionics.
On the other hand, AW also has psionics (albeit as the only weird stuff).
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Yeah... i still have some issues with the whole "tied to the fiction" thing with moves, i'm more used to more traditional systems...Anyway, i like yours very much... The idea was exactly that, give everyone a psionic move at 0 level, and give the psion more (3? 4?) and the ability to upgrade them.
And for me, i wouldnt be Dark Sun without psionics ;)
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For breaking things, isn't there a GM move "Use up their stuff" or "Activate their stuff's downside"? I don't have the book in front of me, but I believe so. In that case, any hard move can be to break something breakable (literally a cheapass weapon's downside is it might break at the worst time!). So that's easy!
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Yes, you're right there is! "Use up their resources", I think.
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I like the Prescient power and am probably going to shamelessly steal it for my Psion :D
(on another note: anyone know why I can't start a new thread?)