Barf Forth Apocalyptica
powered by the apocalypse => Dungeon World => Topic started by: Ludanto on May 20, 2011, 05:10:34 PM
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My players don't use it.
I mean, if they need a rope, they'll pull out a rope and if they need a torch, they'll pull out a torch, but they never feel the need for that +1 (or maybe they forget), so nothing ever gets used up.
I guess that's fine, but kind of boring.
Is Adventuring Gear meant to be "descriptive and prescriptive"?
Like, if my player pulls out a rope to climb a wall, do I say, "Good idea. Take +1 and mark off an Adventuring Gear", or does he have to "activate" the +1 for it to matter?
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The former. If they define the adventuring gear as a thing (rope, whatever) that's a "use."
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Yes. If something from the adventuring gear is being used for a move, that's the +1 right there.
Example: "I don't think we can just waltz past the guards, so I'm going to climb over the wall. I pull out my rope and grappling hook from my gear and scale the wall." "Sure, but it's sheer and there are regular patrols so you won't have much time, I think you're Defying Danger. Take +1 for the rope."
If climbing the wall wasn't a move to begin with, it doesn't use up a use.
Example: "There's a crumbling ancient wall around the tower. It takes you a bit to scramble over it, even with your rope, but soon you're in what was once the courtyard."
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Ok, so what's the relationship of Adventuring Gear to... adventuring gear?
So far I've got: if they make a Move using some sort of "gear", they get +1 and lose a use of Adventuring Gear. If it happens, it happens. OK.
So what happens when you run out of uses? Do you no longer have "stuff"?
I imagine a Thief might burn through AG pretty quickly as he picks locks and such, unless he chooses to jimmy most doors with his dagger or something. I don't like the idea of picks being "disposable", but I can imagine AG acting as sort of a countdown until the pick wears out/gets dull/has an "accident".
And how do you handle things like a grappling hook, or rope? It seems ridiculous to say that the rope or grappling hook is ruined after each use, but then you run the risk of:
Adventuring Gear = 2
Grapple over a wall! (And pull the grapple up after you.)
Adventuring Gear = 1
Scan a dark room with a torch! (Which goes out afterward, sure.)
Adventuring Gear = 0
Another wall! (Now what?)
To anticipate answers:
Prescriptive/Proscriptive: If they pull up the rope, they get the Gear back. Done. Consolation: GM makes a move (time taken resource, rope looks frayed doom, etc.)
"When...gear comes to your aid...": The gear doesn't come to your aid in the first place. It just isn't helpful for some fictional reason. Grapple won't catch, torch flickers too much, whatever.
I may have answered my own question, but maybe not. Might help somebody else, I guess.
Thanks.
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You're right, that's not the most satisfying fictional linkage. When we play, using an item usually means it's used up in some way. If that isn't the case, they can use the item, sure, but it's not worth +1 anymore.
The first time you pull out a rope it's just the right thing at the right time, take +1. The second time, it's just a rope. You can use it as a rope, but it's not worth +1.
I'll think more on how we might address that.
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I just like to cause trouble. :P
Now, hurrys up with that Kickstarter soes I can throws money at you! :)
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I was just crossing off a use of Adventuring Gear, and writing "rope" on my sheet.
Now my inventory is:
Adventuring Gear: 2 uses
Rope (as detailed -- mine didn't have a hook, but yours might)
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John, is that rope still worth +1 after the first use?
I'm toying with Adventurer's Kit just being 3 uses, where each use produces a useful mundane item. Do with it what you will.
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No, it's not worth +1 again (unless I spend another use).
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Yeah, that's the way I've been using it too. I've been pondering if the +1 is really needed. The important part of the Kit is that you've carried useful stuff into the dungeon, but only so much of it. The +1 may make it too tempting to use, and it leads to the slight fictional disconnect of "this ropes was worth +1 the first time I used it, but not anymore." If it's just a way to produce a generic mundane item it's still very useful "a rope with grappling hook? Oh yeah, there's one in my kit."
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I think dropping the +1 would be fine.
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the one question i would have is after you pull a rope out of your adventuring gear does it suddenly gain a weight, or do we still count it as part of the adventuring gear for that? i would hope that it would not suddenly have weight as that would really bog down parties.
also having to permanently define what items you have after using the adventuring gear sounds like it could add up to a lot of book keeping... i truthfully like the 'one use' way that we were using adventuring gear. if something came up we could say 'oh yea... i had that rope from earlier, im going to use it to tie up this goblin.' but other than that adventuring gear was more of an in the moment type thing.
truthfully, the thing we most often use adventuring gear for in our game is torches... lots and lots of torches...
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But wouldn't it also be fine to add a move to game like: When you're using just the right tool for a job, take +1.
Then, if that rope is just the right tool for some future action, you get the +1 again. I mean, it's just a +1 -- it's not like we're using up some zero-sum resource.
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The useful bit would be that it's not extra weight. The uses are defining what's in it. The weight stays he same, but you've got that item you really need.
The only problem with giving out +1s like candy is that they stack with other +1s until you're not getting anything but a strong hit, and therefore not really leading a life of adventure.
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So, do the items then stay defined until the end of the session? Or until you shop for more stuff? Or forever? Or something?
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i think it would probably be up to you as the DM, but personally if the defined items lasted until the party got back to civilization and they went shopping i would let them convert defined items back into charges. if you tried to keep them defined forever it would just add a lot of book keeping which i think having something like adventuring gear tries to avoid.
i personally dislike the session duration because i know some of our games end a session in the middle of a dungeon or something of that like and having your rope suddenly disappear is not only inconvenient it also doesnt make much sense.
the options i would take are until they get back to town or until the end of a setting (basically dungeon forest castle what have you).
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If we're losing the +1, maybe we need a -1. Like:
Adventuring Gear
Torches, poles, spikes, and other miscellaneous gear
Expendable 3, 5 Gold, 1 Weight
When you don't have the right gear for the job when
making a move (picking a lock with a dagger, e.g.)
take -1 to the roll, or expend a use to produce the
gear you need.
Or something.
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I'm against the -1 for not having tools because tools are fictional positioning. Don't have a lockpick (or something about the same size/shape)? You can't pick a lock. Sorry.
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i agree, no penalties. i see adventuring gear as an easy way to say "you have stuff" rather than a means to punish players for something. if you have a dagger and a dagger can work for picking the lock go for it! if not just face the fighter headbutt the door down.
adventuring gear: you dont need to plan for every situation, just but a bag of gear and go!
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OK, so the GM will need to consider where things are on the spectrum:
Impossible without tools.
Possible, but dangerous or consequential without tools.
No tools needed. Not an issue.
More or less. Not trying to over-codify it.
Works for me.
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Hey guys, great discussion!
I've been allowing the +1 then writing it on the character sheet, (like John) but on a fail or hit with complications, I invariably take aways their stuff, or offer limited success with a consequence or hard bargain, again invariably tied up with the adventuring gear. So, they want to risk authoring in their precious rope and grappling hook for a +1 and it might get lost/damaged/become an issue, that's cool.
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I'm not sure the +1 is needed. If you don't have the correct tools you can't do the action you'd like. Give them opportunities to pull out that lamp, rope, spike, etc. Count down their resources. When they run out of something hit them, hard.
The in game fiction is powerful.
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I agree with John and Saint and everyone else who says the +1 is unnecessary and confusing.
Like, if I have a rope, there's lots of things that I can do, fictionally, that I can't do without a rope. That's already an advantage! Why do you need the +1? And then I can keep doing those things as long as I have a rope. Plus, after all, maybe your "hard bargain" requires losing your gear or the DM's move is to "take away their stuff," which already serves to whittle down their supply.
Also, that allows magical equipment to be significantly better than non-magical equipment. A +1 magic rope is now pretty badass!
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If I were running the game in person, when people used adventuring gear, I'd have them write it on a post-it note and stick it on their character sheet. When the dungeon front resolved, everyone takes off all the post-its, they're worn out.